Starter Relay - What am I missing???

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64 Dart 270

64 Dart 270

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64 /6 auto

Starter does not crank when key is in start position (no click – no nothing). Cranks fine and starts when jumping ground post to hot post on relay. So I did the following tests:

· Battery a little low – voltage between batt terminals is 11.5

· G (ground) post – brown wire to NSS – continuity to ground – voltage between post and POS battery post 11.5 – looks good

· Ign post – yellow wire from ignition switch – 11.5 volts when key turned to start position – looks good

· Starter ground post (screw on) – brown wire in pigtail to starter ground bolt – continuity to ground - voltage between post and POS battery post 11.5 – looks good

This was last weekend, so I thought maybe the starter relay was bad. Ordered one online which came yesterday. Installed it this morning, got same results. Redid the tests above – got same results. Wiring all looks in good shape. So what am I missing?
 
Sounds like relay may be bad. With good voltage on the IGN terminal and a good NSS ground, there should be voltage on the small threaded terminal to the starter solenoid which is what you jump to make it crank; if the relay is good.
 
64 Dart 270 said:
64 /6 auto

Starter does not crank when key is in start position (no click – no nothing). Cranks fine and starts when jumping ground post to hot post on relay. So I did the following tests:

· Battery a little low – voltage between batt terminals is 11.5

· G (ground) post – brown wire to NSS – continuity to ground – voltage between post and POS battery post 11.5 – looks good

· Ign post – yellow wire from ignition switch – 11.5 volts when key turned to start position – looks good

· Starter ground post (screw on) – brown wire in pigtail to starter ground bolt – continuity to ground - voltage between post and POS battery post 11.5 – looks good

This was last weekend, so I thought maybe the starter relay was bad. Ordered one online which came yesterday. Installed it this morning, got same results. Redid the tests above – got same results. Wiring all looks in good shape. So what am I missing?
Click to expand...
The "Starter ground post" as You're calling it, is the solenoid wire, continuity isn't everything because resistance & load carrying capacity aren't checked/caught that way.
The relay on the firewall is clicking, or no? You stated "no click - no nothing", so.......
The best tester is a 2-blade headlamp bulb with test leads, ground one to Batt. Neg. and test for power at the non functioning device, if it lights bright You have a connection
with integrity and will supply sufficient current to power all of the devices on an automobile/truck. For You this means;
1) Verify the relay is engaging 1st, if not there is not enough current to power it, use test lamp described above and test at yellow wire...should be bright in start, if so test
at brown terminal to NSS, shouldn't light at all....if it does in start the ground is poor either by wire or NSS .
2) If the relay is functioning fine, use test lamp and test at solenoid post on starter, it should be bright as the Sun even on a good solenoid while cranking, if Yes.....You
have a bad starter solenoid(which Your jump test really ruled out), if no,...move jumper to solenoid screw-on terminal at relay and re-test.....Yes- the sol. wire is bad or
poor connection,...No- relay no good.
 
Got home from work and only had a few minutes to tinker before going out. I disconnected the NSS wire and ran a jumper wire with alligator clips from the G (nss) terminal on the starter relay to where the battery ground wire is bolted to the engine and bingo - starts right up every time with the key.
So just to make sure I wasn't seeing things I probed the brown wire from the NSS again (disconnected from the starter relay) with my multi meter back to the + post on the battery, and I do see 11.5 volts. Gonna tinker with it again tomorrow or Sunday. Could it be that the ground is not sufficient and it's not getting enough amperage? Was thinking of testing the nss wire back to the positive battery post using a light as Killer6 suggested. I guess I should also check the technical service manual I bought (RTFM) to see what it says about testing the neutral safety switch. Any other ideas? My best one right now is to order a second margarita. Thanks for all your responses!
 
Check your nss switch bet it is bad should be a ground in p and N
 
Have you moved the shifter to different positions and tried to crank it? It may be that the shifter cable is out of adjustment and you're not really in neutral or park at the valve body shift lever which actuates the NSS.
 
Have you moved the shifter to different positions and tried to crank it? It may be that the shifter cable is out of adjustment and you're not really in neutral or park at the valve body shift lever which actuates the NSS.
 
A volts meter can show voltage where just 1 tiny strand of wire is conducting. That might not be enough to close the relay though.
 
64 Dart 270 said:
Got home from work and only had a few minutes to tinker before going out. I disconnected the NSS wire and ran a jumper wire with alligator clips from the G (nss) terminal on the starter relay to where the battery ground wire is bolted to the engine and bingo - starts right up every time with the key.
So just to make sure I wasn't seeing things I probed the brown wire from the NSS again (disconnected from the starter relay) with my multi meter back to the + post on the battery, and I do see 11.5 volts. Gonna tinker with it again tomorrow or Sunday. Could it be that the ground is not sufficient and it's not getting enough amperage? Was thinking of testing the nss wire back to the positive battery post using a light as Killer6 suggested. I guess I should also check the technical service manual I bought (RTFM) to see what it says about testing the neutral safety switch. Any other ideas? My best one right now is to order a second margarita. Thanks for all your responses!
Click to expand...
And ,um, see below......WTF?
 
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Nope, You've got it, hook a lamp as stated on the wire to the NSS and Batt+. Then check as nckennyb said, move the shifter cable by pulling out of park and pushing the
buttons slowly reverse and drive to see if it lights up.

Don't know how Your quote & My text got separated..................
 
The meter will not put a "load" on the ground connection. Like others have said here if you have on strand connecting the brown wire to ground then it will measure battery voltage. The real test is using a device that will draw current though that ground connection (headlight). Connect from battery positive to the brown wire and see if it lights. If not then check the wire AND don't forget that the neutral safety switch itself might be bad.
 
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Follow along in your mind the FUNCTIONAL PATH just like a road

GROUND............NEUTRAL SWITCH SHELL............THROUGH THE SWITCH............SWITCH TERMINAL............SWITCH HARNESS CONNECTOR................(up to the relay)..........PUSH ON CONNECTOR AT THE RELAY..........PUSH ON BLADE...........RIVET...........RELAY COIL.................OUT TO THE second RIVET..........THE SECOND PUSH ON TERMINAL..................THE START WIRE CONNECTOR............THE YELLOW START WIRE

NEXT ISSUE:

A..........Is the relay clicking? IF it is clicking,.......

B..... Are the RELAY CONTACTS actually mating (rust, debri, corrosion, goo) and ARE THEY ACTUALLY conducting current?

HOW:

You already know most of the problem, you have posted So get busy and figure it out!!!

1....As suggested above hold the key in "start" and wiggle the shift lever from Park to Neutral and back. If you get a click, intermittet or complete action, then the problem IS RIGHT DOWN THERE at the transmission. Bad switch, problems with linkage alignment, bad connection at the harness connector, etc.

2....If the above test is not definitive, you ALREADY STATED that grounding the NSS terminal of the relay "removes" the symptom. So it HAS to be in the NSS wire, terminals, connector, or the switch, or the rooster comb or linkage.

So....Hook it back up "normal." Hook your meter to the NSS switch terminal on the relay. Twist the key to start. Wiggle the shifter. If the relay won't "click" (or operate the starter) NOTE what you have for voltage at that terminal

IF the relay operates normally, the voltage should be quite low, near zero, or maybe less than 1/2 volt

If the relay won't even click, AND IF you have battery voltage than you have confirmed the wire/ terminals/ connector/ switch is OPEN

Clip your meter onto the NSS wire up at the relay. go underneath, stick your remaining probe into the center connector terminal. Hold it "hard" and "whip" the wire. Any change from nearly zero resistance? IF THERE IS the wire/ connector is intermittent.

If you have a solid "near zero experience" (ohms) I would replace the switch and see what goes from there. Review THE SERVICE MANUAL on how to adjust the shift linkage.

You can download them free from MyMopar
 
Thanks All for the advice. Didn't get time to play with it this weekend and likely will have to wait until next weekend, but I'll follow your suggestions and let you know what I find.
 
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