Starter Relay Wiring

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Buckeye440

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OK everyone here's my situation. '70 Dart, 440, half stock wiring, half "custom." Referring to the bottom wiring diagram (here's link is hard to see http://www.valiant.org/wiring/Wire_69a.gif), I can see how the starter relay is SUPPOSED to be wired in the lower left corner but obviously it's not quite right. I have labeled where each wire goes. Now I know the voltage regulator is not supposed to be connected to it but that's how I got it and it ran, just not correctly. The bulkhead connectors are partially good and partially snipped. So, unhooking the light blue wire from the relay causing the starter to not work when I turn the key, leaving only the positive cables coming from the starter and fuel pump switch to only be connected to the relay, which still allows the fuel pump still turn on when I throw that switch. Now my complex question: how should I wire this so the wire connecting the voltage regulator and ballast to the alternator doesn't need to go to the relay in order for the engine to start? Also on a slightly related note, shouldn't the alternator "charge" wire somehow be connected to the starter to charge the battery? Keep in mind at this juncture I'm open to making this car run and would like to hear any and all options you guys thing feasible. FYI, the battery is in the trunk.
 

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I'm sorry. I cannot figure out your photo.


"The relay."

I assume your car originally had a clutch safety switch. (Depress the clutch to start the car). You ground one of the small quick connect terminals, earlier cars with no clutch switch, one terminal was soldered to the case.

The second "quick connect" goes ONLY to the start terminal of the ignition switch.

The big stud is a junction terminal for battery, and IS ALSO one half of the contacts

The "square" screw is the normally open "other half" of the contacts, and should have about a no 12 or no 10 wire from there to the starter solenoid (small nut)

The battery junctions there, and if you have no ammeter, you can hook the charge wire through there.

Depending on the year, some cars had the main battery cable go directly to the starter, with a jumper wire over to the starter relay 'stud.' Other years, the battery main cable went from battery to the stud, then jumpered down to the starter

NOTHING having to do with the fuel pump, VR, or ignition should be connected to the start relay
 
That's a fire waitin to happen if I ever saw one.
 
That's the thing, I'm not sure how to wire this combo to work as it should, and it's especially confusing because it's somewhere between stock and modified such that some wires are factory correct and others are either missing or snipped off :/
At this point I would just want to know opinions on which route to take as far as trying to fix what's there or start with a more complete wiring set and modify it myself
 
You might be able to salvage the wiring, but seriously, you need to just undo everything at this point and start with a CORRECT diagram. (See below) For your pix, with the ballast and regulator tied to the big post on the relay, the ignition system looks to be ON anytime the battery is hooked up. Does this car have the stock ignition switch in place or other switches? Is this a drag car only?

For stock wiring: Be aware that there are 3 ignition related wires in this area: 1 is the main power feed into the whole dash, and 2 out of the ignition switch called IGN 1 and IGN 2. The main power feed into the dash area is likely the one going to the big post on the relay. IGN 2 feeds 12v to the starter relay and to the brown wire going to one terminal of the ballast the ballast. IGN 1, feeds a blue to the other side of the ballast, to the ECU, and also to the regulator and to one of the field terminals on the alternator.

What I described above is for a real 1972 or later Mopar system. YOUR DIAGRAM is for a 1969 or earlier system so is not what you want to follow if there are 2 small wires + 1 big wire on the back of the alternator. And your diagram is also not right for the Mopar ECU ignition system.

You need to tell us your ignition system and the number and sizes of wires on the back of the alternator. Plus if this is a street car or for drag race only, or what...

As for as how to fix this? With wires cut so badly, it would be wisest to start from scratch, IMO. I'd bet the bulkhead connectors are half bad, and who knows how badly the dash area has been hacked. Hence the fire comment above...
 
nm9stheham said:
............. but seriously, you need to just undo everything at this point and start with a CORRECT diagram. ...
Click to expand...

This is sort of my point. When a car has been changed from factory, it's impossible for us, "here" to guess "what's there" by remote control. You of course don't HAVE to wire the car per factory, there are other ways.

However, the starter relay is one issue that because of the neutral switch or clutch switch is pretty much "there." Even if you have neither of those, wiring it is pretty straightforwared, right off the original diagrams.

THE ONLY ADDITIONS that should be connected to the relay is power tap---offs to other accessories from the "big stud" which is essentially a battery terminal

NO ignition feed should be off there.
 
Buckeye440 said:
That's the thing, I'm not sure how to wire this combo to work as it should, and it's especially confusing because it's somewhere between stock and modified such that some wires are factory correct and others are either missing or snipped off :/
At this point I would just want to know opinions on which route to take as far as trying to fix what's there or start with a more complete wiring set and modify it myself
Click to expand...

Start by disconnecting the battery ground for safety. Take EVERY wire off the rellay, and put them back one at a time as you need them. I already outlined "what."

1....Big stud......This jumpers the battery, the starter big stud, and any "hot" tap offs together. Also coming off this stud is the main feed "used to go" to the ammeter through the bulkhead connector, via the fuse link

For now, that is ALL that should be there

2....Bare square terminal. ONE wire only............going down to the starter (small) solenoid terminal

3...and4....The two quick connect terminals

If you have no clutch safety switch ground one of them. Hook the other to the "starter" wire coming out through the bulkhead

Now, find out where "what is left" goes and does. If someone has done some sort of alternator bypass, one of them may go to the alternator output. This would hook to the big stud

Anything else, such as fuel pump or ignition should NOT be there except as a power feed to a relay


"We can't guess" what you may have, here.
 
I apologize for taking a little while to respond, I've been away from home for a bit.
I was told this car was driven somewhat "regularly" on the street when the weather was good, which is what I intend to keep it as, wanting a hopped-up street-strip car.
The alternator does have the 3 wires (blue, green, black).
For the ignition setup there's an MSD 6AL box and an MSD Blaster SS coil. Also, a fuel cell/pump in the trunk. To start the car you gotta throw the ignition and fuel pump toggle switches he installed then turn the key on the column.
As for how badly the wiring is on the inside, everything looks to be there and hooked up, just leaving everything on the outside of the firewall to be the area where the wires are either wired wrong or not wired at all. Also, do all of the "slots" in the bulkheads connectors have wires coming from them or are there just a generic amount and used only as necessary leaving some unused?
 
Although overwhelming at first, wiring can be figured out with a little effort. It's a bit similar to figuring out which streets go where and finding which ones to use to get to your favorite places at certain times of the day. There is a learning curve. Fortunately on our older cars, it's not too steep.

Just think of wiring diagrams as a roadmap for electricity. Make sure your freeways, expressways and signaling systems are in good shape and designed to handle the traffic, or you can have vehicles not making it to their destinations or overheating on the roads and catching fire.
 
You need to get yourself some documentation. These aftermarket diagrams are ----ok---- under some conditions, and somewhat easy to follow compared to the factory diagrams, but when you are trying to figure out connectors, there is no substitute for the orginal diagrams. You can download quite a few years of these free at MyMopar. Some of those came from the guys here on FABO

There is one caution.......there was a few years where the bulkhead connector is wrong..........the yellow start wire and the green/ red horn wire is reversed at the bulkhead connector

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

One really great thing now, at that site, is they have posted ONLY the factory wiring section out of the shop manual, making it a much smaller file:

mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70_Dart_Challenger_Wiring_Full.pdf
 
Thank you everyone, especially 67Dart273, that seems to be tedious but the most sure fire way of finding everything that's messed up. Looks like I'm just going to check every last one of these bad boys and rewire all of them to the stock configuration, then go back and wire in the "add-ons"... Boy I really want this Dart to run in the worst way... Now if only I could get my father to do the same with his haha
 
Don't feel intimidated. The factory correct wiring is actually pretty simple. Of the 3 bulkhead connectors, one is for wipers and another for front lights & horn. So, if they didn't goober those, you need only consider the "engine harness", which is ~8 wires at the bulkhead. To remain factory look, you would re-wrap w/ non-adhesive vinyl tape which you can buy new. You could also use "split loom" like modern cars, but bulkier and I think ugly. I used smooth PVC sheath most places (like my 1980's M-B). Don't wrap with regular electrical tape unless you like a sticky mess.
 
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