starter relay

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barbee6043

barbee6043

barbee 6043
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71 duster slant 3 in floor .hasn't run in 15 yrs or so. fresh battery, replaced the starter r elay (NEW) with one WITHOUT the terminal for clutch safety switch. I have current to pos. post at relay, current in and of of firewall, did the MAD upgrade. engine turns over with screw driver at starter.
I have NO current at ign terminal post at the relay,( the yellow wire at relay.) this ign terminal should always be hot? unless the relay is not grounded well or BAD new relay???
or am I missing a lot??
 
The yellow wire is hot only in start and that comes from the ignition switch. Relay must be grounded. Try running an alligator clip lead or screwdriver from the big stud to the "push on" blade where the yellow wire is now. Should crank.
 
"no current" ? It is hard to measure current. Do you mean "0 V, rel. to ground"? As stated, the yellow wire is "crank request" from the key switch. Next step, move the blk multimeter lead on BATT- terminal and measure again. If ~12 V that time, then the case of your relay is not grounded to BATT-, so no coil current can flow. If the starter relay actuates, you will hear a faint click, which should apply +12 V to the thicker brown wire that goes down to actuate the starter's solenoid (really big relay which clunks as its big contacts engage and the starter pinion gear moves out).

But, somewhere in the starter relay's coil path there must be a neutral safety switch. Perhaps they put that in the path of the yellow wire within the cabin in some cars. Most have it on the coil- side, as a wire down to the NSS on the transmission (shorts to gnd in P or N).
 
67Dart273 said:
The yellow wire is hot only in start and that comes from the ignition switch. Relay must be grounded. Try running an alligator clip lead or screwdriver from the big stud to the "push on" blade where the yellow wire is now. Should crank.
Click to expand...

YES I did that and It cranked. I also cleaned and made sure the SR is grounded. but no start in usual method ( of just turning the key!!!!);;;; so problem is bad SR?????

here is my question: 71 duster MANUAL shift car, ( the yr they started using the clutch safety switch) or was it '70? .. anyway.... I bought a SR for prior years to '71 where there was NO clutch safety switch... ( don't need its cost and laying on may back!) does this NOT mean I have no problem with this whole safety switch situation???? I thought I had done this same thing years back, I admit I have only had a couple of stick cars of the 71 vintage. having this type SR with NO terminal for the safety switch neutralizes the whole BS of the switch ... correct!?? surely this type of starter relay is all I need. ?
it is like taking an auto SR and just grounding that NSW terminal? right?

in answer to Mr Grissom, I had the wife hold jumper to the SR for grounding to battery and SR CASE, ( already cleaned to ground SR case to inner fendr) and I turned the switch to start, she could hear a faint "click" but said it did not come from the SR, and when SHE turned the ign key inside the car, cold she hear no sound from the ign switch. she said the faint sound sounded like faint click from toward firewall ( had to have come from the starter, right ??)
like said, I am piecing back together a car that has sat for 20 years, and when it was parked back then, probably for a reason!!? ha
thanks for the help
 
barbee6043 said:
YES I did that and It cranked. ... so problem is bad SR????? ...
Click to expand...
Of course not. You proved that the starter relay works, and that its coil- is already grounded. The key in "crank" applies +12 V to the yellow wire (rel. to BATT-). Measure that is happening. I doubt it since when you apply +12 V w/ a jumper the relay engages. If the yellow wire stays dead, start tracing it from the key thru the firewall to the starter relay to see where you don't get +12 V in "crank".

BTW, while in there, a simple and fairly effective anti-theft is to install a push-button switch, in series w/ the yellow wire, in a secret location. Some people re-purpose an existing switch. For "valet bypass", wire a toggle switch in parallel, if you will allow valets to drive your classic ("I didn't scratch it"). A thief could still hot-wire the car under the hood, but most prison teaching is the movie method of yanking and twisting the wire at the key switch.
 
BillGrissom said:
Of course not. You proved that the starter relay works, and that its coil- is already grounded. The key in "crank" applies +12 V to the yellow wire (rel. to BATT-). Measure that is happening. I doubt it since when you apply +12 V w/ a jumper the relay engages. If the yellow wire stays dead, start tracing it from the key thru the firewall to the starter relay to see where you don't get +12 V in "crank".

I guess I am missing something here. I jumper the batt post at the SR to the yellow wire terminal there and it starts at the ign switch. if I do not jumper, I turn ign switch to start and I have NO voltage at the SR yellow wire terminal, and thus none at the sign switch. so how can have a problem at ign switch or yellow wire to feeds it?????
are you saying, jumper the SR full voltage the yellow wire terminal there, and then try to check v. from the ign switch back all the way back down the yellow wire to the SR ?????
Click to expand...
 
Agree RRR. The YELLOW wire comes from the KEY. It IS the "start" voltage that triggers the relay. By disconnecting that, and jumpering from battery power to the "push on" blade terminal on the relay......you said it cranks, right?

THAT PROVES the relay, starter, are OK

Now you must find out why you have now power on the yellow wire in crank.

Might be the bulkhead connector. Wiggle the connector try again. Remove the connector and inspect. "Work" it in/ out several times to scrub the terminals

Access the ignition switch, find the yellow and check it there With your meter connected to the yellow, twist the key to "start." Voltage?

Yes.......the ignition switch is OK, you are losing it between there and the relay. REcheck the bulkhead connector, is most likely

NO voltage at key, might be right in the connector or bad ignition switch
 
67Dart273 said:
Agree RRR. The YELLOW wire comes from the KEY. It IS the "start" voltage that triggers the relay. By disconnecting that, and jumpering from battery power to the "push on" blade terminal on the relay......you said it cranks, right?

THAT PROVES the relay, starter, are OK

Now you must find out why you have now power on the yellow wire in crank.

Might be the bulkhead connector. Wiggle the connector try again. Remove the connector and inspect. "Work" it in/ out several times to scrub the terminals

Access the ignition switch, find the yellow and check it there With your meter connected to the yellow, twist the key to "start." Voltage?

Yes.......the ignition switch is OK, you are losing it between there and the relay. REcheck the bulkhead connector, is most likely

NO voltage at key, might be right in the connector or bad ignition switch
Click to expand...

YEP I found it, the connector at the column. the big hot wire was feeding in HOT , but the connector was not connecting for the yellow ign wire. . I probed the test light needle in yellow wire and it started, then not start for a few times, but after probing some more it finally got to starting. the column was out of the car when got it for how?? many years. no doubt the terminals there need a better cleaning. I thought I did so pretty good when put it back in. guess not. maybe some dielectric grease would be good there ??

I understand now that the red big hot wire feeds the ign switch and that feeds the yellow wire that activates the starter relay. (duh?)

I admit I have never been any good at auto wiring, though I read the diagrams in the FSM.. my youngest daughter, will be 41 this July, was diagnoses dyslexic ( spelling?) as a child. well she graduated with good grades and scholaristic scholarship for 2 semesters, (though didn;t use,,, am still pissed).

me, I gradated with a BS in Ag in 1970. now Ag is not the easiest or hardest, but I graduated. so I must not be completely stupid (???? HA).... point to all this is I am, I guess, NO doubt dyslexic as I invest numbers, letters, and see many things backwards, up side down etc..... does this make me so darn dense when it comes to auto electronics???? I have NO idea!! ha

thanks for the help and ( not making fun of me!!!! especially RRR! HA)
 
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