Steering Column Help

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stimpy29

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Hello, I'm in the process of converting my 69 Barracuda to a 4 speed. We're now working on the steering column. I have a donor manual transmission column and have swapped the collars on the original column. We've made some good progress, however, we cannot figure out where and what the two bolts on the top collar are used for. Based on the documentation in the shop manual, we have them in the right place, however if you notice by the attached picture, each bold has about a 1/4" that is not threaded. We have all the original parts and pieces from both columns, and can't seem to figure out what they are used for. I've also attached a picture of the original collar with the column shift, the red circles indicate where the bolts go.. Outside of the column shift, it is identical to the manual transmission column.

Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks.

collar1 [640x480].jpg


nutnbolt.jpg
 
those are the agravating ones. Their square heads catch in notches stamped in the top of the tube and draw the collar down tight
 
RedFish,

As always, thanks for the reply. A little clarification if possible, I'm unsure as to how they draw the collar in. The back of the collar has the square slots where these screws fit in nicely, but other than that I don't know what they are attaching to or how they draw in the two collars together. Perhaps I'm not explaing myself correctly, I can post more pix if it makes sense.

Thanks again.
 
There are notches in a sheet metal tube where the square bolt head catches. Maybe they draw the shift column to the shift tube. IF so,
you nolonger need them. I haven't been into column of any type lately.
 
OK, perhaps I don't need them. A quick follow up. How do I keep the two collars together? What holds them together along with keeping the steering column shaft from sliding out? I've got the ring clamp to keep the steering column from sliding out from top to bottom, but what holds it in place the other way around?
 
Bumped..
Lets hope someone will scan service manual pages or whatever to help you.
Good luck
 
Just a further update. I haven't found a use for those two bolts. The donor column had them too, but again, they just seem to be attached to nothing.

I've attached a couple of other pictures of the column. Right now the problem is as follows, I can pull the shaft from the top (notice the vicegrips at the bottom of the shaft). I figure if the shaft is locked in place, it will keep the two collars together. Alternatively, if the two collars could be locked in place, they would keep the shaft from being able to be pulled out.

Any ideas?

Thanks as always.

columnbott.jpg


columntop.jpg


fullcolumn.jpg
 
Pic looks like you have removed the lower cross pin for the box coupling. That really should be installed before the shaft is inserted through the lower bearing. They are variations in designs. Some have those 2 sq. hd. bolts and I can remeber having them in with nuts loosely started then coaxing them into the notches before mentioned. Other columns have a screw knifed in from the bottom up through a little hole in the lower bell / collar.
The lower bearings vary in design too. Later one is a simple bicycle bearing and wont survive a lot of hammering ( like driving that cross pin in ).
Anyway... the shaft goes in from bottom up. The parts are stacked on like building a lamp and the snap ring above the upper bearing holds it in.
I'm guessing you have different types being merged together to build a column and that aint easy.
That first bell will need to be attached to the column tube, on way or another.
Thats all I got for you mate. With 1000 plus members here somebody will surely have more and better info.
 
RedFish said:
Pic looks like you have removed the lower cross pin for the box coupling. That really should be installed before the shaft is inserted through the lower bearing.
Click to expand...
OK good to know. We'll have to dismantle and retry.

RedFish said:
They are variations in designs. Some have those 2 sq. hd. bolts and I can remeber having them in with nuts loosely started then coaxing them into the notches before mentioned.
Click to expand...
The original column and donor column both had the square bolt setup. I just can't seem to figure out what notches they lock into.

RedFish said:
Anyway... the shaft goes in from bottom up. The parts are stacked on like building a lamp and the snap ring above the upper bearing holds it in.
Click to expand...
It's interesting that you mention that, because the shaft definitely pulls out from the top, the snap ring locked it from being pulled out from the bottom.

RedFish said:
That first bell will need to be attached to the column tube, on way or another.
Click to expand...
Do the square bolts have a role in keeping the two collars together?

Thanks again for your help.
 
RedFish,

We figured it out, thanks again for your advice. It was the square head bolts that was the important piece to the puzzle. Within the column there were two rectangular slots where the square heads locked into. So we've got that mystery solved. :cheers:

We're now on to the coupler at the bottom. We purchased a rebuild kit and it comes with the expected parts. It comes with a clip that we're not sure of the configuration. Also, it comes with a very small pin, about a 1/4" long, diamter of maybe 1/16". Any advice on installing the clip and any ideas of what that little pin is for?

Thanks for the advice.
 
I've got instructions for rebuilding the box coupling archived here somewhere if i can find it.
The tiny pin goes in a tiny hole ( LOL ) just below the rubber seal and serves as a stop so the guts dont pop the top off during handling.
 
Just curious, anything to prevent us using a small self-tapping screw instead of the pin?
 
RedFish,

Thanks again for all of your help. We managed to get everything sorted out. Next project, the brake lines.

:)
 
stimpy29 said:
RedFish,

Thanks again for all of your help. We managed to get everything sorted out. Next project, the brake lines.

:)
Click to expand...

Good news ! I couldn't locate that instruction file for box coupling rebuild.
Dug down deep too. LOL
 
The square head will fit into 2 notches in the outer column jacket. YES, you do need them. Put them into the collar and put the nut on til its about flush with the top of the bolt. Put the collar on the outer column jacket and you will see where the edge of the square headed bolt goes into the jacket. They are what keep the collar from rotating on the outer jacket.

FYI- the jacket is the tube that has the diamond shape area(collapsing point) on it.
 
Thanks again everyone for all of your help and suggestions.

After getting the column installed, I noticed that my steering box has about 1/8 turn of play in it. Can anyone suggest a reputable shop that rebuilds/repairs these steering boxes? Preferably something north of the border, but I won't be too picky.

Thanks.
 
You can adjust the backlash in the steering gears. Look for a screw with flat screwdriver slot and a jamb nut on top of the gearbox. Thats a very touchy adjustment though.
If you get it too tight you'll know it in driving.A little bit of play is needed . Otherwise you'll be constantly steering left and right to stay straight in the road.
 
RedFish said:
You can adjust the backlash in the steering gears. Look for a screw with flat screwdriver slot and a jamb nut on top of the gearbox. Thats a very touchy adjustment though.
If you get it too tight you'll know it in driving.A little bit of play is needed . Otherwise you'll be constantly steering left and right to stay straight in the road.
Click to expand...

RedFish,

Thanks for the quick response. We gave that adjustment a try, but it didn't seem to make a difference. Right now the steering seems to have a lot of play. Consider the three spokes of the steering wheel are at their home location, if I were to turn left the righ spoke would be over half way between home location and top with out moving the wheels.

I think that is more play than needed no?
 
I guess while this thread is on the steering column topic, is there any exploded assembly pictures/manuals of how the guts of the steering column are assembled?
 
PLay comes from lots of places. Pitman arm, idler arm, all have a little lot motion in them.
Here's something to try. Grab the box coupling and turn it by hand. If the input shaft is moving in and out of the gearbox, there's your problem. That play can't be adjusted out.
 
OK, I'll give it a shot and report back.

CKJ688, my father has a shop manual for 69 Dodges that we used. It has some decent drawings, but nothing extremely detailed. I'll scan that section in over the weekend and post.
 
RedFish said:
PLay comes from lots of places. Pitman arm, idler arm, all have a little lot motion in them.
Here's something to try. Grab the box coupling and turn it by hand. If the input shaft is moving in and out of the gearbox, there's your problem. That play can't be adjusted out.
Click to expand...
Everything outside of the input shaft seems to be okay. I'm fairly certain now that a rebuild might be in order. Any recommendations?
 
I'm going from power to manual in my 68 Dart. I have floor shift and dash ignition. I have the manual gear in and in tearing apart the manual column (its a column shift/ign) I notice that the shaft is two pieces that slide. Is the power column/shaft also two pieces? Why not just slide it down?
Thanks,
Craig
Great site, new member.
 
bcseydel said:
I'm going from power to manual in my 68 Dart. I have floor shift and dash ignition. I have the manual gear in and in tearing apart the manual column (its a column shift/ign) I notice that the shaft is two pieces that slide. Is the power column/shaft also two pieces? Why not just slide it down?
Thanks,
Craig
Great site, new member.
Click to expand...

If your column shaft slides, that means that your shear pins have broken. The shear pins are part of the collapsible portion of the whole column. Wait til they slide up on you and it pulls the coupler apart.......

I know that first hand.....talk about scary.
 
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