Still issues with the car not starting!

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LovetheA's

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So once again I reach out to the community to answer a problem I seem to be having. I thought that I had solved the problem with my Barracuda but I guess I was wrong. About two months ago my car would intermittantly decide not to start up most often after running for a while and being hot. There would be a click when I turned the ignition to the start up position but the starter wouldn't engage. After some trouble shooting I decided to replace the rebuilt starter and solenoid with a rebuilt one and replace the starter relay on the inner fender. For a few weeks when taking the car out everything seemed fine. I thought problem solved but I was wrong. This past weekend I took the car up to the Adirondack Nationals in Lake George NY. I stopped to get a bite on the way back. Got in the car to start her up turned the key to the start position and nothing. I mean no click no sound nothing. At first I thought ok dead battery. I checked the headlights they worked fine. Took off the battery terminals cleaned them and put them back on not any better. So I took a screwdriver touched the two terminals on the starter relay and started the car up. Drove it home but I'm still not sure what the problem is? What does everyone think bad solenoid on a recently rebuilt starter or ignition switch problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Carl
 
Could be either as I have gotten three starters in a row that were bad.
 
Could be the ignition switch, the starter relay, the neutral safety switch (if it's an automatic), the adjustment of the gear shift linkage (if it's an automatic), any of numerous wires and connections. Could be the "remanufactured" starter (generally they're junk). Systematic diagnosis is called for.

First, try starting the car in Neutral rather than Park (or racking the shift lever through its full range of travel while holding the key in the "Start" position). If you get noise out of the starter, the fault is with your neutral safety switch. If not, the fault might still be with your neutral safety switch. Get out your test light, remove the two small push-on wires from the starter relay, and check for battery voltage across the two wires (or across the one wire and ground) when the key is held in the "Start" position. If voltage is there, replace the starter relay. If no voltage there, check for voltage across the the + small relay wire and battery negative. If voltage there, the neutral safety switch is faulty or out of adjustment. If no voltage there, the ignition keyswitch or its wiring are suspect -- time to trace backward until you find where the voltage-with-key-in-"start"-position stops.

The Neutral Safety Switch is screwed into the driver's side of the transmission. It does only that function on '68 and earlier cars, so has a single wire going to it. If it's a '69 or later, then it is a combination neutral safety switch + reverse light switch with a 3-wire rubber-booted plug going to it; middle wire is for neutral safety.
 
I'd say starter relay. Starter is probably OK if you can jump across & it works. I had to replace a couple relays on the firewall.
 
Next time it happens:

1. First use your dome light as a poor man's voltmeter as you try to start. That is for those that don't carry a (free w/ coupon) Harbor Freight multimeter in the trunk.

2. Unplug the yellow wire at the starter relay and connect a jumper wire from the big stud (BATT+) to that spade terminal. This is the Radio Shack alligator clip lead that you should have several in the trunk, or scrounge on the side of the road for a piece of wire. This is how thieves hot-wire your car.

3. If nothing, use another jumper to short the wire going to the NSS (down to auto trans). Make sure nothing is in front or behind of the car and be ready to jump away. If the starter turns and the car moves, the tranny was in "D" or "R" (my wife did that to me once, but didn't jump since I tested the NSS ohms). If the car doesn't jump, the NSS or wire is bad, or (more likely) the shift linkage is not adjusted optimally.

4. If you hear a clunk from the solenoid, but starter doesn't turn, the starter is bad, isn't getting a good ground thru the aluminum (common), or the starter isn't getting close to +12 V at the end of the big cable (weak battery, corroded battery terminals, old wire, bad connection). Your multimeter could resolve that and find where the main voltage drop occurs. Don't condemn the starter unless you measure it is getting <7 V from its big terminal to its case.

5. If a bad starter, replace w/ the spare mini-starter you carry in the trunk. If a slant owner, you will whistle and be done in 2 min. If SB or BB, a little cussing and find concrete blocks or 4x4" to hold the car on the frame rails before you crawl under, plus get the steering in the right place, go buy the right socket extension to get at the top bolt, or call for a tow.
 
Thanks everyone for all the input please keep the info coming. I should of been more specific for that I'm sorry. The car is a real 4 speed 1967 BB Cuda. It doesn't have a neutral safety switch. I'm thinking that if the starter relay was able to be jumped and the starter fired up the motor than possibly solenoid on the starter or could it be the starter relay that is brand new? How do I determine if the ignition may have a short because when turned to the start position it may not be engaging the solenoid and starter?
 
ground the relay. it should have a clutch safety switch. if it doesnt have a ground off the starter relay, the relay itself needs a good body ground
 

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73Abodee

That is a great point. My relay doesnt have a tab at that point. It looks as if that area is manufactured without it. It is just a flat metal area. If that is the case how would they ground the starter relay? I'm pretty sure in 67 a barracuda 4 speed car didn't have a neutral safety swtich. To make matters worse I just went downstairs and decided to try to start up the car. I haven't run it since I put it away on Sun. I figured it is going to be dead. Well it fired right up. There was no problem. So now it appears as if when the car was hot the problem was there. I am confused?

Carl
 
LovetheA's said:
73Abodee

That is a great point. My relay doesnt have a tab at that point. It looks as if that area is manufactured without it. It is just a flat metal area. If that is the case how would they ground the starter relay? I'm pretty sure in 67 a barracuda 4 speed car didn't have a neutral safety swtich. To make matters worse I just went downstairs and decided to try to start up the car. I haven't run it since I put it away on Sun. I figured it is going to be dead. Well it fired right up. There was no problem. So now it appears as if when the car was hot the problem was there. I am confused?

Carl
Click to expand...

if you have no provision on your relay for any ground or safety switch, the relay needs to be grounded at its mounting point on the fender apron or wherever it is mounted. you could switch it out for a later one like above and just run a ground wire to the body if you wanted to. sometimes when these things use the case as a ground, it can be hit and miss. just like people are having problems with a good ground with their ECU boxes.
 
im guessing this is yours? if so , the mounting tab is the ground
 

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Yes that is exactly what my starter relay looks like. So if the ground is the mounting bolt that should be sufficient I hope. I still don't understand how this could happen when the car is hot but when the car cools down it functions fine?
 
I just replaced the wire from the battery to the relay and I fixed alot of my problems, those 45 year old wires look good but arent always.
 
LovetheA's said:
Yes that is exactly what my starter relay looks like. So if the ground is the mounting bolt that should be sufficient I hope. I still don't understand how this could happen when the car is hot but when the car cools down it functions fine?
Click to expand...

it just may be coincidence that it starts cold, or it may be the relay. if it were me, i would get a new relay and make sure it is bare metal on metal contact to the body. my duster was a manual with a clutch safety switch and i installed a 727 .i wasnt worried about originality, so i just ran the ground off my relay directly to the body.
 
Have you cleaned the bulkhead connector?
These have gave me problems over the years in cars and especially trucks.
 
I have decided to replace the ignition switch and also closely check all the connections to and from the starter relay. If all the connections look good I may replace the starter relay again. I don't think it is the starter because the car immediately starts when I jump the two posts on the relay. The question I have is can I just replace the ignition switch without replacing the lock mechanism? I dont want to have to replace it and get new keys if I don't have to. Also should I check closely the connection to the relay from the ignition switch? If it looks bad I'll just replace the connection as well. Thanks a lot everyone for the trouble shooting. It has been a big help. This is the best site.
 
You can replace the switch only, as they are seperate parts.
 
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