Stock 340 Manifolds or TTI Shorties?

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This is the best I can do for pics at this time Toolmanmike . Check the clearance under my car with 4-speed. I'm loving it!!

Cheers!!


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Check out the clearance on drivers side. Ceramic coated TTI shorties.


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AAndrews said:
This is the best I can do for pics at this time Toolmanmike . Check the clearance under my car with 4-speed. I'm loving it!!

Cheers!!


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Check out the clearance on drivers side. Ceramic coated TTI shorties.


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Looks like you're running a rack and aftermarket steering joint and lower column. That's what doesn't fit with headers and stock steering.
 
toolmanmike said:
Looks like you're running a rack and aftermarket steering joint and lower column. That's what doesn't fit with headers and stock steering.
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Yup! usually the trouble areas plus poor ground clearance with long tubes and 4-speed.
 
I've heard good things about Doug's Headers. Anyone have experience with those on a Duster? Ground clearance? I have manual steering & aftermarket floor shifter.
Edit: Decided to bite the bullet and get the Doug's full length headers. Only want to do this once, so instead of the TTI shorties, will go full length & sell the shorties!
 
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I've seen the dyno testing that gets posted over and over, where a 300hp Magnum crate motor only made eight more hp with headers vs. hi-po 340 manifolds. (Note that this was a motor whose hp peak was something like 45-4800 rpm, so despite the 300 hp rating, it was a really mild motor.) I can only relate my (limited) personal experience.

1. About 1980 or so, I had a 73 Duster 340 automatic, 3.21 open rear, that was stock except for heads milled .030, a 71 intake and a spread bore Holley. Ran 15 zeros consistently, with no traction problem despite having an open rear. Put a cheap set of headers on it. Had to dent them in a couple of places, they leaked a bit, and they hung down below the tie rods on the driver's side enough that regular street driving partially flattened them. But man alive, did they help power. Went from 15 ohs to 14.40's despite now having so much more low end that now I had a traction problem. Just having a sure grip would have been worth a couple more tenths. More power up top, too. Went from full throttle shifting at 5200 rpm to shifting at 5800 rpm. And all this was with the factory exhaust from the headers back.

2. Despite the power gains, the leaks and the low hanging tubes kept me from running headers again for many years. Fast forward to 2011. Had a 67 Barracuda, mild 360, Torqueflite, 3.23 gears. This was a mid-13 second car, so even though mild, it was a good bit faster without headers than my old Duster 340 was with. Hearing good things about TTI quality, I decided to try a set. Long tubes, because that was all they offered at the time. Despite being fresh out of a three-month stay in the hospital and having a left arm that (at the time) I could barely raise, I got the TTI's in without any problem. They cleared everything, didn't have to dent any tubes whatever, and once in, they didn't leak or rattle. And power? Same as before, helped everywhere, not just up top. This car did have a sure grip, but now would roast the 235/60/15 T/A radials out back from a 25 mph roll, and then start fishtailing so badly I would have to back off. Scared me enough that I switched to drag radials.

So, based on my own experience, I can only conclude that long four-tube headers are worth significantly more than eight horsepower on even a relatively stock 340/360. And a quality header like TTI or Doug's eliminates all the header problems of old. Other than the extra power, I don't even notice that my Barracuda has headers. No rattles, no leaks, ample ground clearance. Spark plug routing as easy as with manifolds. Can't think of any reason to choke a 408 with stock exhaust manifolds.

Edit: I should add that ease of installation applies to 67 and later. Headers are a booger to install if you have an early (63-66) A body. DAMHIK

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Many people are stuck in the 70's with their idea of low hanging, leaking, poor fitting headers. My TTI W2 headers fit great, and yes a 4 speed car. Been on 5 years, never had a leak. I think people get caught up in repeating something they heard until the point it becomes gospel. The new TTI, and Doug's headers are great. This is a general statement and directed at nobody in this thread.
 
cpearce said:
Many people are stuck in the 70's with their idea of low hanging, leaking, poor fitting headers. My TTI W2 headers fit great, and yes a 4 speed car. Been on 5 years, never had a leak. I think people get caught up in repeating something they heard until the point it becomes gospel. The new TTI, and Doug's headers are great. This is a general statement and directed at nobody in this thread.
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Reading through this thread I was thinking the same thing. Today with tti and Doug's the hang low and constant leak crap is over.
 
abodyjoe said:
Reading through this thread I was thinking the same thing. Today with tti and Doug's the hang low and constant leak crap is over.
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Yeah. Im running long tube stepped TTI’s to H pipe, 2.5 full system out the back, spiral core mufflers before axel bend in my 72 Duster with a 340, 4 speed w/ gear vendor, 73 up drag link, manual steering, 90* oil adapter w/ wix 51051R which is large, and car riding low. There was no clearance issues at all at any of the points. The one spot that I had issues was my old drive way was peaked where the sidewalk met the flat of the driveway, would scrape the the H pipe ever so slightly. I’ll post a pic in a little while.

Now a buddy has Flowtech full headers in a 70 340 Dart and the bottom of the #3/5 pipes hit the ground on every single bump. Those things are junk.
 
Ricks70Duster340 said:
I've heard good things about Doug's Headers. Anyone have experience with those on a Duster? Ground clearance? I have manual steering & aftermarket floor shifter.
Edit: Decided to bite the bullet and get the Doug's full length headers. Only want to do this once, so instead of the TTI shorties, will go full length & sell the shorties!
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Yeah ! ! !

You get wayyy more than 10 h/p too ! ! !

The way people throw 10 h/p out there, doesn't matter 6 cyl or 512 stroker, it's always "only 10 h/p" ! ! ! BS !
 
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inertia said:
Yeah ! ! !

You get wayyy more than 10 h/p too ! ! !

The way people throw 10 h/p out there, doesn't matter 6 cyl or 512 stroker, it's always "only 10 h/p" ! ! ! BS !
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I called TTI and talked to one of their techs (Sam). Asked him about the shorties versus full length headers. He said the shorties were designed primarily to deal with ground clearance issues. He said for me with my 408, I should definitely go with long tube headers. He said I should expect substantial improvement over the manifolds. Was enough to nudge me to the long tubes! I asked him about the lead time. He laughed, and said there is still quite a backlog (for TTI headers). Dougs headers, on the other hand, are in stock at Summit so I ordered them.
 
I put Hookers (still have the original packaged decals) on my brand new 69 A56 cuda after I had the car for about 8 months. Having never installed headers on anything I owned and being 18 years old my only surprise was the the coolant pouring out when removing the stock exhaust manifolds. The car screamed, headers never leaked, never had to hammer on them and they lasted for 7 years until it ended up totaled. Not sure what the difference is in Hooker construction between 1970 and today.
 
cpearce said:
Many people are stuck in the 70's with their idea of low hanging, leaking, poor fitting headers. My TTI W2 headers fit great, and yes a 4 speed car. Been on 5 years, never had a leak. I think people get caught up in repeating something they heard until the point it becomes gospel. The new TTI, and Doug's headers are great. This is a general statement and directed at nobody in this thread.
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I would run manifolds before TTI headers. It’s that simple. IMO they are junk and there are better options. If you are smashing your headers flat it’s because you have issues driving the car with headers.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I would run manifolds before TTI headers. It’s that simple. IMO they are junk and there are better options. If you are smashing your headers flat it’s because you have issues driving the car with headers.
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Better options then tti? You have two choices tti or Doug's. No better options. If you are smashing headers it's because you are most likely running low hanging garbage hooker, headman, flowtech or any other of those cheap *** pile of **** headers that hang low and block plugs because of a poor design.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I would run manifolds before TTI headers. It’s that simple. IMO they are junk and there are better options. If you are smashing your headers flat it’s because you have issues driving the car with headers.
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Never owned a set and never plan to. I have a set of Doug's in the box but am probably using the factory manifolds. TTI is too proud of something they blame the assembly of the car on in regards to fit. My advice is keep working your tooling until it not a problem or don't make someone give up their birthrite for a set of headers they may have to work over to make fit. JMHO and it's just a general statement...

JW
 
SLOPAR72 said:
Never owned a set and never plan to. I have a set of Doug's in the box but am probably using the factory manifolds. TTI is too proud of something they blame the assembly of the car on in regards to fit. My advice is keep working your tooling until it not a problem or don't make someone give up their birthrite for a set of headers they may have to work over to make fit. JMHO and it's just a general statement...
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It is not wrong of TTI or any other header manufacturer to require the engine sit in the OE location. After all, they designed the headers to fit that way so how would they be responsible for mods that change that?
 
Ricks70Duster340 said:
It is not wrong of TTI or any other header manufacturer to require the engine sit in the OE location. After all, they designed the headers to fit that way so how would they be responsible for mods that change that?
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I have put headers on all kind of musclecars and Abody's seem to have the biggest problem..... Before I would buy a set of TTI's a set of junk summit headers would be in my lineup and bang away if necessary. My opinion is like an @#$%^&*( in that everyone has one. If someone wants to roll the dice or accept them possibly having fitment issue, that's their lane to drive in.... Not I lol...

JW
 
SLOPAR72 said:
I have put headers on all kind of musclecars and Abody's seem to have the biggest problem..... Before I would buy a set of TTI's a set of junk summit headers would be in my lineup and bang away if necessary. My opinion is like an @#$%^&*( in that everyone has one. If someone wants to roll the dice or accept them possibly having fitment issue, that's their lane to drive in.... Not I lol...

JW
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Just because the A Body cars are tight does not mean it is the fault of the header mfr's, as you know. They produced a product they think will fit the majority of cars. Yeah, the el cheapo's likely do not fit as well. We know that. You are certainly welcome to your opinion as we all are, but not all headers are created equal either. Not all cars are configured the same just like all enthusiasts are not as skilled or as patient as others are either. Buying a cheap set of headers just to get a sense of fitment is not money well spent IMO. The cheapo's will not be the exact same as the higher quality ones, so what is the point? Install the set you want, make it work, and move on with life.
 
Early Mustangs with linkage power steering are challenging, then and now.
Early Ford/T-bird big blocks also.

A-bodies aren't the only challenging ones, especially for a novice ! !
 
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Ricks70Duster340 said:
Just because the A Body cars are tight does not mean it is the fault of the header mfr's, as you know. They produced a product they think will fit the majority of cars. Yeah, the el cheapo's likely do not fit as well. We know that. You are certainly welcome to your opinion as we all are, but not all headers are created equal either. Not all cars are configured the same just like all enthusiasts are not as skilled or as patient as others are either. Buying a cheap set of headers just to get a sense of fitment is not money well spent IMO. The cheapo's will not be the exact same as the higher quality ones, so what is the point? Install the set you want, make it work, and move on with life.
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Pick your poison.... A quality set- try Lemons. I have installed 2 sets and they literally took basic measurements over the phone and have a library of technical data on cars or atleast they did. Both fit great. Pricey but I knew what to expect when they arrived. It's just an opinion and nothing more....

JW
 
Just a note - the cheap headers (I think they were Black Jack) I put on my Duster back in 1980 survived two years of street driving and 50,000 miles with the two low tubes only partially flattened.

A few years later, I put another set on my stepson's Duster 340. Took him two weeks to knock a hole in them. Muffler shop welded that one closed, but he kept beating on them and after a year, they were trash. I was gonna put manifolds back on, but he said, well, I know how to take care of them now. So on went another set of headers. Few weeks later, he knocked hole in the new headers when he absent mindedly ran over a fuel tank stub at a gas station. I didn't bother fixing it this time. Sold it next year, headers still leaking. This was after he moved out (with a little push from me). Of course when I went over it before selling it for him, I discovered the rough idle was caused by one idle mixture screw turned all the way in and the other several turns out. And the non-working radio was caused by him having cut the wiring I had put in, and just twisting the bare metal ends together where they would short out against the metal dash. And a few other equally dumb things (he glued a radar detector bracket to a mint dash pad). Oh, and before all that, he had taken it to the strip after I rebuilt the motor, and ran a full second slower than he should have, with 2.50 60 foot times (same as my slant six). OK, the last few things are only marginally related to the original subject, but it is true that how long a set of low hanging cheap headers last depends to a large extent on how clueless the driver is.
 
Rat Bastid said:
I would run manifolds before TTI headers. It’s that simple. IMO they are junk and there are better options. If you are smashing your headers flat it’s because you have issues driving the car with headers.
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And you base this on what? If you are going to make such a bold statement, please unlighten the uninformed masses of your knowledge. I'd love to know better options.
 
cpearce said:
And you base this on what? If you are going to make such a bold statement, please unlighten the uninformed masses of your knowledge. I'd love to know better options.
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1. Stepped headers are a fad, unless you understand what you are doing and your engine is developed around them. Even then it’s a crap shoot.
2. Take a good look at the collectors. One of the worst designs there is. It’s horrible. If you don’t think there is power in the collector then you just haven’t done any research or testing.
3. Getting all the tubes above the steering linkage makes working on the car a nightmare. Getting a transmission or a scatter shield with a TTI header is a giant PITA. There is no reason to do that.
4. Back to the collectors. TTI points them inward, which again is a problem. It makes fitting exhaust more problematic (rather than less so as TTI claims) and makes everything closer to the transmission.

My dad dies when I was fairly young, so I hung with my uncle (his brother). I watched him and rode with him in cars with all brands of headers and even deep pans and never once did he smash his headers or pan. My last A body was a 69 Dart with a 4 speed. It came with Hooker headers and a Moroso deep center sump pan. I drove that car my last year in high school and all through college and never dented the headers or the pan. The car was easy to work on too. I could get to all the plugs and getting the starter out was a breeze. Again, I would use manifolds before I over paid for TTI headers.
 
Rat Bastid said:
1. Stepped headers are a fad, unless you understand what you are doing and your engine is developed around them. Even then it’s a crap shoot.
2. Take a good look at the collectors. One of the worst designs there is. It’s horrible. If you don’t think there is power in the collector then you just haven’t done any research or testing.
3. Getting all the tubes above the steering linkage makes working on the car a nightmare. Getting a transmission or a scatter shield with a TTI header is a giant PITA. There is no reason to do that.
4. Back to the collectors. TTI points them inward, which again is a problem. It makes fitting exhaust more problematic (rather than less so as TTI claims) and makes everything closer to the transmission.

My dad dies when I was fairly young, so I hung with my uncle (his brother). I watched him and rode with him in cars with all brands of headers and even deep pans and never once did he smash his headers or pan. My last A body was a 69 Dart with a 4 speed. It came with Hooker headers and a Moroso deep center sump pan. I drove that car my last year in high school and all through college and never dented the headers or the pan. The car was easy to work on too. I could get to all the plugs and getting the starter out was a breeze. Again, I would use manifolds before I over paid for TTI headers.
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Perhaps from performance standpoint TTI headers are not the be all end all for an all out effort race car. I think very few would fall into this category of necessity, and therefore TTI are likely a good alternative. In my 69 Swinger, yes 4 speed, yes scattershield I didn't find the install or accessibility to anything to be a problem. Now on my 73 SS/JA Duster, I agree I wouldn't run TTI on it when every little bit counts. It uses Stahl headers with a tube that goes around the frame. I also have Hooker 5303 race headers, I can assure you those are an ugly install even with an automatic. Again, don't think this is what the masses are doing.
 
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