Submersible well / Pressure question

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65BCODA

65BCODA

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I am in the planning stages of building my final home on a parcel of land that I have had for 25 yrs. Where I would like to locate the new structure is approximatly 800 ft +/- from the existing well.
The well head works flawlessly for the existing structures ,mobile home/shop, which are located 150/300 ft distance from it.

I would like to utilize the well head if possible to keep the costs down.
Is it feasable to run a larger supply line such as a 2" line the distance then neck it down? Possibly replace the existing 40 gal tank with a pair of larger tanks? I'm just concerned with a drop in pressure.
The home will consist of two master bath suites and a kitchen with an additional water draw for a lawn irrigation system.


If you have been down this road or have working knowledge any input would be appreciated.
 
I am no expert on the subject but I will give you my 2 cents worth. Water being a fluid does not compress so there should be no loss of pressure as long as you are not pumping uphill for a long distance. Another words, as long as you can get the water to the top of the well with decent pressure you should be able to maintain it over a long distance as long as that distance is close to level. If you are using a submersable (sp?) pump I would think a 1.25 inch line feeding a holding tank pre pressurized to 35 psi you should be O.K. Talk to a well drilling outfit and see what they have to say.

Jack
 
Jack is pretty close to right Roger. Vertical rise is your enemy. You're pumping fine now with the rise out of your well so as long as you travel in a horizontal manner with the remainder of the new line you will be fine. No need to exceed the size of the existing line coming from the bottom of the well. If your coming out of the well with a 1" line then the only benefit for increasing the line size would be for holding ability, or reserve. Your 40 gallon tank will be more than sufficient. Maintain existing line size unless it's small then you might elect to pull the pump and increase the size. Make sure the line size is as large as the orifice coming out of the pump. Hopefully it hasn't been necked down. Neck it down when you go into the house from 1" to 3/4" then neck down again at the service valves under the sinks and lavs. You should have no issues with pressure. Do your lawn system in zones.
Small Block
 
Thanks Bill, I couldn't remember the size of the pipe coming off of the pump. It's been 14 years since I installed mine.

Jack
 
If all those other uses on this well will remain, you will definately need a larger water line. Pressure and volume are totally different issues.
 
I tried to do this same thing when I built another home on my adjacent lot from my original, perfectly fine existing well but since the property lots were subdivided into two seperate lots, it would not pass the zoning regulations so I had to dig a brand new well on the lot for the new home.
It sucked because the old wel was only about 150' from the new structure and the water would have been running down hill slightly to the new home.

I'm sure you have already checked into this with your zoning officer but if not you should just in case you run into the same regulations that I did.

I really wanted to bypass the rules and do it anyways but my zoning officer was very strict and was all over the new construction project like a bad suit, nice guy, he just made sure he did his job to the fullest.
 
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so you should definitely run a bigger line. Water + pipe = friction loss. Especially over 800' of pipe.
 
The existing mobile home will be dealt with by a Cat 330 at the appr0piate time.

The existing well is about the same elevation as the new home site, except it will require a downhill run about midpoint then up hill approximatly 15' of uprise for the remaining 300'.

I will definatly ask a local well outfit but who knows they just might be wanting to make a sell 8-10k.

Thanks guys for the input.
 
rednesss said:
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so you should definitely run a bigger line. Water + pipe = friction loss. Especially over 800' of pipe.
Click to expand...

I was waiting for someone to mention friction loss. The longer the hose lay the more PSI is used up in friction loss. For each 10 ft rise in the hose lay you lose 5 psi. And for every 10 ft of drop you gain 5 psi. The only way to maintain enough GPM is to increase hose size. So yes i would start with 2" for at least 500 ft, reduce it to 1 1/2" for 200 ft then 1" for 100ft. Then 3/4" to you home. Now this is a Guess on my part. If you knew the friction loss per 100' of PVC at a given ID, And the GPM flow of your pump, I could figure it out exactly.
 
Wells & pumps are my business. If you are adding load to the existing well there could be pump capacity issues. If there is no net load increase to the existing infastructure, you should be fine. Rule of thumb in our area is 7-10 gpm design point per single family household. 2" schedule 40 PVC will be more than adequate for an 800' run on level ground. Add a couple 80 gallon bladder tanks for storage and you should be golden. If you are adding load to the existing pump with your new home, a larger pump may be required to meet peak demand. You should check on a constant pressure system, which a local water service vendor will be familiar with. Good luck with your new project. It will be more complex than any car building project you will undertake.
Cheers, Rat8)
 
Thanks for the advice guys.

Looks as if my next project will be the addition of a couple 80 gal bladder tanks to the existing well head, then as stated run a 2" line out toward the site.

Gotta be more cost effective than sinking a new hole.
 
How are you getting electricity to the pump after you move your service 800' away??
 
rednesss said:
How are you getting electricity to the pump after you move your service 800' away??
Click to expand...

There is an existing meter pole at the mobile home that feeds the shop and well that will remain in place.

I will have the power company add another pole with a transformer further down the line then run an underground service from there.
In effect there will be two meters.

Once all is in place my caretakers will move out from the mobile home and I will bring in an excavator and stuff it into a couple 30 yard debris containers.
 
Not to be a cheap skate, but we have a well that only pumps about 4GPH, I have three 80 gallon pressure tanks, (not bladder) in the crawlspace, never have an issue. The pump has a 4GPH restrictor.

LOL

Friction loss, I almost spit out my RC.
 
On my units, if i dont flow 15 GPM i'm not happy. This is from a 450 ft well in the Ozarks. Let me ask this question. Some are saying to put a 2" line from the well to the house BUT if the oriface coming out of the top of the pump is only 1" then it's my understanding that you can only flow as much volume as the smallest size will allow? Correct that Volume and Pressure are two different related issues. Volumn will be contolled by the size of pump. Pressure will be controlled by the switch at the tank. Will the larger pipe from the pump to the house also serve as more holding capacity or reserve or water availability? If so why not put in a 4" PVC sch 40 line? I'm asking and by no means an authority. When you decrease a line size you then create a Venturi. Exactly opposite in the other direction.
Small Block
 
I paid about $3-k for my 180' well, 60' of line to the house, bladder tank and hook up.

I dug all the trenches myself to save $$$$.
 
Bill, I believe the larger pipe diameter will increase the available reserve over the distance, up to the point of reducing down. I may be wrong, but sounds about right to me.

Seems as if DessertRat has given it a thumbs up, I will find a local as well to confirm.


I have access to a trencher and a 17 yearold to run it :)
 
Small Block said:
On my units, if i dont flow 15 GPM i'm not happy. This is from a 450 ft well in the Ozarks. Let me ask this question. Some are saying to put a 2" line from the well to the house BUT if the oriface coming out of the top of the pump is only 1" then it's my understanding that you can only flow as much volume as the smallest size will allow? Correct that Volume and Pressure are two different related issues. Volumn will be contolled by the size of pump. Pressure will be controlled by the switch at the tank. Will the larger pipe from the pump to the house also serve as more holding capacity or reserve or water availability? If so why not put in a 4" PVC sch 40 line? I'm asking and by no means an authority. When you decrease a line size you then create a Venturi. Exactly opposite in the other direction.
Small Block
Click to expand...

Friction loss due to a smaller pipe is cumulative (you aren't as interested in the pipe coming out of the well as you are at the end of the pipe), especially over 800', bigger pipe equals less friction loss. Think of it like resistance in copper wire, the more ohms the harder the electrons have to push against it.
 
rednesss said:
Friction loss due to a smaller pipe is cumulative (you aren't as interested in the pipe coming out of the well as you are at the end of the pipe), especially over 800', bigger pipe equals less friction loss. Think of it like resistance in copper wire, the more ohms the harder the electrons have to push against it.
Click to expand...

X2. I was going to say this same thing but you beat me to it. The larger pipe is to reduce friction loss.
 
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