Summit Cam Help/Recommendations

-
Lola_the_72_Swinger

Lola_the_72_Swinger

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
9
Reaction score
18
Location
Northwest Ohio
Hello all, I just picked up a 77 date coded 360 last weekend I plan on doing a VERY low buck rebuild on for my 72 Dart (not a whole lot of money laying around as a college kid lol). Me and my buddies decided we might as well throw a mild cam in it while it's torn apart if I could find a cheap one. I have narrowed it down to a few very inexpensive Summit brand cams but I have a few questions for all of ya'll that have been doing this much longer than me, especially since this is the deepest I've ventured into a motor thus far.

For starters, are there any quality problems with the Summit brand cams? I think I read somewhere on here that Crane used to make them.

I'm looking for a cam similar to the stock 340 cams, which no one can apparently agree on the exact numbers for, so I'm just kinda looking for in the same ballpark. The specs and links for the three cam/lifter kits I've found are below:

K6901- 276/288 dur, .441/.441 lift, 114 LSA
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6901/make/dodge

K6900- 278/288 dur, .421/.444 lift, 112 LSA
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6900/make/dodge

K50052- 272/272 dur, .454/.454 lift, 110 LSA
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k50052/make/dodge

The big question then is, of course, which one? Whatever I choose will go in a stock bottom end '77 360 with stock '76 heads that might get some light port work if I can get it done cheap enough (otherwise they will just be cleaned up and maybe milled a bit). Intake is a Weiand Stealth dual plane with a 600cfm Holley 4160 on top. The car most likely will never be raced, just driven plenty, so the main focus is driveability (which I don't think any of these will effect anyway).

Any advice is very much appreciated and welcome! Just remember I'm not gonna drop any more than like 150 bucks on a cam right now, so these are really the only options. Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
 
no quality problems
but you do NOT want to use the 272 cam- it's way too much duration for a low compression motor
the other cam having 218 @ 50 but really wide 114 LCA

the 204 214 278 intake is similar to the 340 cam note the long duration for not much lift
actually all have long duration for the lift which kills your bottom end and mileage especially in a low compression motor
you can get 450+ lift with a 256 cam it's aea under the lift curve you need not duration
get a big peice of paper and draw a circle and map the timing events IP IC EXOP EXC of all three

If your car is stock gears, stock converter and low compression I'd pass on all three
throw a new timing chain on and be happy
save for a lunati voodoo 250
 
here a 268/280 cam in my 360 if you have an auto car i would advance it 4 degrees, 360 have low comp also i would mill those heads .045 if stock. this is a com cams unit cam
 
Tell us more about your rebuild and what you are willing to do and not do. Is the engine apart? Larger cams are going to require higher rate valve springs and sometimes topping the guides. You should do a push rod length check with any cam swap, so factor replacement push rods as a possibility.
 
I have the 272/272 cam and lifters, cant tell you how good it is yet but I've been told it's a good one for my 340 so I'm going to try it out.

If I didnt get mine for a good deal locally and was buying new I'd of gotten the lunati 268
 
Elgin catalog page 25
http://www.elginind.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Elgin-2018-ProStock-Catalog.pdf
216-216 =272 =E-1789-P
204 -214 = 277 288 = E-937-P
218-218 = 276-288 - E 1223P

lots of other choices but only one for broke students with a stock setup is the top one
big jump from there to the 204-214

you can figure lobe centers from the lobe centerlines
add them together and divide by 2

you can find the 340 cam on page 2 e-578s
209-229 279-289 E578-s

there is also an early four barrel cam there pn 4227879
 
Wyrmrider said:
Elgin catalog page 25
http://www.elginind.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Elgin-2018-ProStock-Catalog.pdf
216-216 =272 =E-1789-P
204 -214 = 277 288 = E-937-P
218-218 = 276-288 - E 1223P

lots of other choices but only one for broke students with a stock setup is the top one
big jump from there to the 204-214

you can figure lobe centers from the lobe centerlines
add them together and divide by 2

you can find the 340 cam on page 2 e-578s
209-229 279-289 E578-s

there is also an early four barrel cam there pn 4227879
Click to expand...

You lost me...
 
Currently just the intake is off, but the heads will be off too next time I get a chance to mess with it. Ideally I don't want to have to dig into the short block at all apart from the cam/lifters etc. associated with a cam change. The heads will be going to a shop anyway to get cleaned up so I can have some head work done if it doesn't get ridiculously expensive. I was thinking milling and maybe some light porting, plus whatever is necessary on the spring end of things. I can get the compression raised by milling the heads more if that's necessary/would work for those cam choices. I'll have to check the numbers next time I'm around the barn to see what the heads I'll be using are, but I'm pretty sure they're off of a '76 motor that I had at another time.

Also, the trans is a 904 that will be getting rebuilt during this whole process, and the rear end has highway gears until later in the summer when I can change them, so the rest of the drivetrain shouldn't be a big worry since it will all be sorted out too.

The Cuda sounds fantastic by the way!

Edit: Out of curiosity, what kind of compression should I be shooting for to use any of these cams or just in general?
 
Last edited:
I have the K50052 (272 adv. duration) in a very low compression stock-bottom 318, with home ported 318 heads. I like it. It's performed well for me. Been in the car 4 years now. You can home port your own heads very cheap.
Quick video with 2.76 gears and no headers, stock converter
 
Last edited:
I have the K6900 in my 360 W200, it's a sweet cam in combination with 4.10 factory gear.
 
Dentll

look at those cams on summit, scroll down for the specs

Summit does not grind cams

you are looking at the .050 duration then the advertised duration at a tappet lift of .004 for those 3 cams then an ELGIN part number for the summit cam
(not the usual .006 so it looks bigger)
 
if you like a 270 class cam go for it
i'd like headers, gears, convertr

may say crane but remember crane bought a big detroit camgrinder
those cams are ground in detroit not by hand in a botique shop
wonder if even elgin grinds their own
he can buy the elgin version for less than the Summit version and much less than the Edelbrock Version
 
The car already has TTi headers on it with full 2-1/4 exhaust, forgot to mention that. I've had that all on for a few years now behind the 318. Currently leaning more towards the 6900 (278/288), but definitely not decided yet.

Thanks for all the replies so far! Anyone else got some input too?
 
if you have headers you really do not need a 10 degree spread
given the choices I'd use the 272
you can google the elgin version and save a few bucks
410 gears lmfao
 
If the car runs good bolt the intake on it and drive it. Do the mods after you have saved enough cash to do it right.

I know how tuff it is to wait... But so many unfinished projects get sold after the owner gets in over their heads and find he has neither the time, money or talent to finish the car.

Enjoy your car... The time to drive it is now.
 
i'm running the 1798 installed at 106* in our dart and it runs really well.. motor has about 10:1 compression though... car only has a 2.94 gear in it right now and it really gets. i'm sure the 9.5" converter helps to.. can't wait to put the 3.23 sure grip unit thats been waiting to go in for over a year..:)

Summit Racing® Camshafts SUM-1798




.
 
abodyjoe said:
i'm running the 1798 installed at 106* in our dart and it runs really well.. motor has about 10:1 compression though... car only has a 2.94 gear in it right now and it really gets. i'm sure the 9.5" converter helps to.. can't wait to put the 3.23 sure grip unit thats been waiting to go in for over a year..:)

Summit Racing® Camshafts SUM-1798

That cam is similar to the Jones cam in my son's dirt car...way to big for the OP's car IMHO.


.
Click to expand...
 
OP, you are killing your driveability with the larger cams. Listen to wyrmrider.

If you mill the heads .030", then you will gain about .5 to .6 points in compression ratio. But a standard Felpro kit head gasket will throw much of that away, as it is thicker than the original head gasket. So that's just another thing working against you for low end torque and driveability.

Your really should be shooting for the 9-10 range for static CR for a mild cam and driveability... like abj mentions in post #17. You are starting with the high 7's to 8.0 at best. A piston change is the only way to get there. But that is not in your budget plans so that is why the smaller cam duration is needed. You're 'cheaping out' on the wrong part here....
 
So would it be better to pass on the cam for now and get more work done to the heads? As in get the heads done up really nice with a little more porting, milling, new springs, etc. until it's time for a cam?

I suppose I should elaborate on why this is happening right now too. The car has the original 318 in it right now, but it quite frankly doesn't run good at all and has started to develop a knock. Also, the trans definitely needs a rebuild and the engine bay needs wiring work desperately, so I decided to find another motor to throw together for cheap to get the car driving good again for the summer. A big factor in the small budget is the fact I need to get the trans done too. As luck has it, I found a nice complete 360 for 100 bucks and here we are now. Just figured I would see what all I could do within budget while we have it apart to regasket and check everything over.

Thanks again for all the advice, I really appreciate it!
 
Gotcha.. With the 360 you have more cubes and a longer stroke so that is a step up in the low RPM torque department over the 318 anyway. Moving in the right direction IMHO.

The issue with these older cam profiles is that they have longer advertised durations and that will decrease the low RPM torque; overdo it, and the term 'dog' at lower RPM's becomes applicable.

The workaround then becomes raising the stall speed of the torque converter so the engine can rev up when starting out (like revving the engine extra high each time you start out with a manual trans).. some people like that, and for drag racing that is all fine..... But that does not meet my view of 'good driveability' and things like fuel mileage suffer.

To avoid those compromises, what you want to do is get more lift to help breathing, but limit the increases in duration to the minimum, to limit the drop in low RPM That is where wyrmrider is pointing you. These older slow ramp designs don't achieve that. With a few more $$ in the cam department you can get there.

The Lunati Voodoo designs can be had in 256 or 262 advertised durations with the same lifts.
  • 10200700 LK $228 from Lunati
  • 10200701 LK ditto
Now that gets to valve springs.... which you have mentioned in the head work.

The one advantage of the old style slower ramp cams is that you may get away with the stock springs for a while. But even with those, if you rev it up, the valves will still want to float at some point. With a cam like the Voodoo, you're very limited to RPM's with stock springs (maybe almost useless), so a spring change is pretty much gonna be needed. But you are already considering a valve spring change anyway. So that cost does not sound like it is a barrier. Yes? No?

Backing up a bit for the heads... since your use seems to emphasize low-to-mid RPM operation, I personally would not be spending money at a shop for any porting work.... if you are not running high RPM's a lot, it is not going to be of much benefit. Put the money elsewhere. If you want to port, do some mild work yourself; there are a lot of good threads and advice on that here on FABO. Do that before taking the heads to the shop... just in case you cut into a seat a bit!
 
I have just about the same stock lower engine as your 360. I home ported the heads, milled .043 and use the .028 Mr Gasket for the heads.The cam is a Crane H-260-2. Crane Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts 693901.
Also running Edelbrock performer intake and 1406 carb. 904 trans, 2400 Converter and 3.55 gears all in a heavy B-body. Unmeasured CR is around 8.4:1 with 155 psi cranking compression measured. The mill is no barn burner but it runs well in my all around cruiser. As suspected, it needs more CR using pistons to really wake it up just as others have pointed out here. The head and intake milling (you will have to match the intake to heads for sealing) were the most expensive part of the work at around $600 including valve cut and I have about $1200 total. I was short on funds and was my first "build". Looking back now I would have done it differently and had a stronger build. Not trying to discourage you but think about your long range plan for the car. For myself I would....

Keep the 904 rebuild going and step up on the converter. Gotta match your future RPM range/cam to that.
Closed chamber heads. The smog heads are hurting you. Swap meet, CL, or someone here may have some cheap. Iron ok.
Rear gears. Something like 3.55:1 or lower if you cruise it around town only. 8.25 rear is fine.
Cam as recommended here but you will also need springs, lifters and possibly pushrods. $$$ to do it right.
Lastly...Pistons. Would possibly need overbore and balancing. $$$$.

Another option is is to just swap in a low mileage Magnum 5.9. Might be able to score one for $500 and bolt on your LA gear.
Best to buy a running engine and do a compression test.

Hope this helps.
 
So why not just run a stock 340 replacement cam? They're inexpensive and work fine in a basic 360. If you are on a tight budget, focus on getting the car on the road and reliable. Better to be driving it rather than looking at it.
 
C130 Chief, that was the original plan but I couldn't really find an exact match that wasn't pretty steeply priced, hence why I chose the original options from Summit due to their similar specs. I completely agree on the rest of your post, and that's really the goal. I didn't get to drive her much last summer and want to change that this year.

After contemplating and reading over all of your responses a few times, at this point I'm thinking maybe spend the money getting new springs and such to have the heads ready for a cam swap later down the line, especially since the summer will bring in a bit more cash flow. Possibly try some light porting myself before I send out the heads as well. That said, any good recommendations for springs? I will admit I don't know a whole lot about valve spring ratings and such, so any advice is more than welcome. Also, not costing an arm and a leg is still of pretty high importance, but I'm willing to spend maybe a little more here so I don't have to later. Any other recommendations as far as head work and such would be greatly appreciated, you have all been very helpful so far! :thankyou: I'll be back home tomorrow as well so I can check my head casting numbers to make sure they're worth the work, although I'll probably still use them whether they are or not lol.
 
Summit will give you free cam recommendations for your engine just provide it's details. Or spend a little more and get a Comp cam, their advice is free also
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top