Suspension Rebuild and "Springs"

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MuuMuu101

MuuMuu101

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I'm starting to make plans for the next step of the build (hopefully this summer) for my 1968 Dodge Dart. I just want to wait till I start my internship before I actually start ordering parts and such just so I know I've got some money coming in. I'd like to make the Dart a car I can drive comfortable on long trips that would also be taken to some track days either on a road course or autocross (typical pro-touring kind of car). I'm a "spirited" driver.

The Dart has a 273 with low compression in one cylinder and is leaking a bit, ta 904 that seems to be working fine (just spills a couple drops of trans fluid every month or so), and a 7 1/4 with an open 2.94:1 gear ratio. I've also got an A-body 8 3/4 sitting in my garage with an open 2.76:1 gear ratio needing to be looked over and have U-bolts and shock plates installed.

I definitely need a suspension rebuild but don't know what parts to go with. I'm thinking about parting a suspension rebuild kit comprised mostly of MOOG parts on rockauto. Someone on moparts already gave me a list for parts numbers. I'd like something suited for better handling as mentioned above. I was also thinking about getting T-bars from Firm Feel. Based off of what I'm kind of looking for, I did some calcs and that said I should go with 1.06" T-bars (I like a little stiffer feel anyways). If I'm going to be swapping out the diffs, I'd like to swap out the springs as well. My only problem is I don't know much about who sells good leaf springs. I'd like something to lower the car a bit and offer good handling. So far, for leaf springs, I know of Hotchkis, but I'm curious as to what other options there are (as I'd like to go to a TVS in a couple years anyways). I've heard of people going to a shop that will add more leafs to their setup already, but I don't necessarily want to raise the rear. Does de-arching the spring help keep it lowered or would I have to do something with the shackles? How much does this usually cost?

I was looking at probably purchasing this tool set from Mancini as I'd like to try doing the suspension on my own. I just don't know what else I'd need.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/unfrsuprotok.html

I've also watched a couple videos on youtube about taking apart the front end on an A-body; however, they had the engine out of the car. I'm not sure if I'll be able to replace the 273 this summer. I'd like to go with a mild/stock 360 for simplicities sake. I don't know if I'm getting too ahead of myself, but that's what I'd like to do.

I won't be able to get to brakes, wheels, and tires for another year or so, I'd think. I'm currently running KH disc brakes up front and 10" drums in the rear with a 1 1/32 bore MC (manual brakes). I've got an old power steering box (I think it came out of a 73-75' Dart) with a Federal pump (I think). And I'm running 205/75/14 tires on the stock steelies (I know this is a huge limiting factor in handling).

Any suggestions, tips, tricks? Should I get anything else if it will fit in my budget? Should I try fabbing up some subframe connectors? My only problem, again, would be having no access to a welder.

Thank you for all your help!
 
I need to rebuild the suspension on my Duster. We should help each other out.

By the way, do you have links to those videos. I'm still trying to price out suspension parts. I don't know if I want to go with a full kit or just order what i need form Rock Auto. I also want to do other suspension upgrades too.

I think the preferred pump is a Saginaw. I pulled mine from a junker at Ecology auto wrecking. I got it, the pulley and the hose for about 45 bucks. Works good, no leaks.

I know for sure that the Ecology on Imperial has a 5th Avenue with the Saginaw pump and brackets still attached. I was there last weekend. If the pump design has not changed (someone more knowledgeable could comment) then you can probably use that one as well. I pulled my brackets for 10 bucks off a Polara.
 
It was a series of videos on youtube:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YNoYLVX7TE"]1973 Dart Sport front suspension disassembly pt1 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxi_bOTfrM0"]1973 Dodge Dart front suspension disassembly part 2 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ-K6BiKido"]1973 Dodge Dart front suspension disassembly part 3 - YouTube[/ame]

And here's my parts list for the rebuild from rockauto; however, yours may be a little different as yours is a '74 Duster:

Part Price Quantity Total
1968 DODGE DART 4.5L 273cid V8
Suspension : Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K704 {#2084837, 2298533, 2298704, 3514974, 4532483} Problem Solver
Front Upper; Incl. powdered-metal gusher bearing to allow grease to penetrate bearing surfaces B
$31.79 $63.58
Suspension : Control Arm Bushing
MOOG Part # K7103 {#2071204} Offset Bushing
Front Upper B
$21.79 $43.58
MOOG Part # K791 {#1858024} Package Quantity As Shown In Image
Front Lower B
$8.58 $17.16
ACDELCO Part # 45G5002 {#88912487}
Front Upper A
$5.13 $10.26
Suspension : Strut Rod Bushing
MOOG Part # K7040 {#2071443}
Front; IMPROVED DESIGN B
$21.79 $21.79
Steering : Tie Rod End
ACDELCO Part # 45A0030 {#88909864}
Outer A
$38.89 $77.78
ACDELCO Part # 45A0029 {#88909863}
Inner A
$39.89 $79.78
Steering : Tie Rod End Adjusting Sleeve
MOOG Part # ES319S {#2072436, 2072437, 4147445}
Front B
$11.27 $22.54
Subtotal $336.47
 
MuuMuu101 said:
I'm planning on buying the Hotchkis TVS in the near future from Summit...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-80113/overview/year/1968/make/dodge/model/dart

I'd assume this would mean I won't be needing the strut rod bushing, tie rod ends, and tie rod end adjustable sleeve. Can someone confirm this for me? I'm sticking with my current UCA's as I've still got sbp.
Click to expand...

That seems like a great kit, but way out of my budget. People who have that kit, seem to really like it.
 
MuuMuu101 said:
I'm planning on buying the Hotchkis TVS in the near future from Summit...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-80113/overview/year/1968/make/dodge/model/dart

I'd assume this would mean I won't be needing the strut rod bushing, tie rod ends, and tie rod end adjustable sleeve. Can someone confirm this for me? I'm sticking with my current UCA's as I've still got sbp.
Click to expand...

Out of your list, the only thing you'd still need is the lower control arm bushings and ball joints. Everything else will be taken care of in the TVS kit.

The TVS kit is pretty awesome, but for my money it includes some things that you don't need, and is missing some things that you do. In addition to being more expensive than some of the other options out there.

One of the biggest things is that Hotchkis uses heim joints on their UCA's. For a track car, that's awesome. On the street, I'm no longer sold on the idea. I wiped out the heims in my Hotchkis UCA's on my Challenger in about 7k miles of street driving, which included weather. Hotchkis did replace those heims, and now includes boots that cover the heim joints. But, I don't think the heims will last anywhere near as long as bushings on the street, and changing them isn't the most enjoyable thing ever. The heims on the struts rods aren't as big of a deal, as they don't see the loading that the UCA's do.

This is what I would do (and have basically done on my Duster...)

  • 1.06 (or bigger) Firm Feel torsion bars - $355
  • Tubular UCA’s (PST, FFI, etc)- $350
  • Adjustable strut rods (PST SR 14385)- $279
  • Solid tie rod sleeves (PST SAS 440S)- $49
  • LCA boxing plate (PST LCAPLTMOP621)- $14.50
  • Greasable LCA pins (FFI w bushings)- $135

    Hellwig Sway bars
  • Tubular front 1 1/8” (#55905)- $142
  • Solid rear 3/4” (#6907)- $237

    or E body rear ( for B rear cars)
  • Solid 7/8” (#6908 )- $180

    Afco leaf springs
  • 20231M (121 lb)- $320
    Or
  • 20231 (142 lb)- $340

    1” bushings for shackles
  • Energy suspension (2-2117G)- $9
  • Bilstein RCD shocks (RCD-70-56663)- $400
For a grand total of $2,311, if you use the more expensive A body rear sway bar and 142# springs. :D

But, that includes the torsion bars, shocks, and reinforced LCA's with greasable pivots, which would cost an extra $885 to add to the TVR kit. So, you're looking at a savings of $675. And you're pretty close to comparing like to like with that. True, you don't get heims, or the hotchkis sway bars (which are awesome), but everything will basically function the same on a street car. You also don't get the Hotchkis rear springs, which a lot of folks have had problems with. I have the 121lb Afco's on my Duster, and they work great. I listed the 142's for the 111" wheelbase cars, probably a better idea. The 121's sit just above "zero arch" on my Duster. They also have a reinforced front section for improved handling, they're basically circle track springs.

And you can use your extra money to put in some frame connectors and torque boxes, or buy better brakes, or a Borgeson steering box, or a set of Mustang rims, etc. etc.

Just my .02...
 
72bluNblu said:
Out of your list, the only thing you'd still need is the lower control arm bushings and ball joints. Everything else will be taken care of in the TVS kit.

The TVS kit is pretty awesome, but for my money it includes some things that you don't need, and is missing some things that you do. In addition to being more expensive than some of the other options out there.

One of the biggest things is that Hotchkis uses heim joints on their UCA's. For a track car, that's awesome. On the street, I'm no longer sold on the idea. I wiped out the heims in my Hotchkis UCA's on my Challenger in about 7k miles of street driving, which included weather. Hotchkis did replace those heims, and now includes boots that cover the heim joints. But, I don't think the heims will last anywhere near as long as bushings on the street, and changing them isn't the most enjoyable thing ever. The heims on the struts rods aren't as big of a deal, as they don't see the loading that the UCA's do.

This is what I would do (and have basically done on my Duster...)

  • 1.06 (or bigger) Firm Feel torsion bars - $355
  • Tubular UCA’s (PST, FFI, etc)- $350
  • Adjustable strut rods (PST SR 14385)- $279
  • Solid tie rod sleeves (PST SAS 440S)- $49
  • LCA boxing plate (PST LCAPLTMOP621)- $14.50
  • Greasable LCA pins (FFI w bushings)- $135

    Hellwig Sway bars
  • Tubular front 1 1/8” (#55905)- $142
  • Solid rear 3/4” (#6907)- $237

    or E body rear ( for B rear cars)
  • Solid 7/8” (#6908 )- $180

    Afco leaf springs
  • 20231M (121 lb)- $320
    Or
  • 20231 (142 lb)- $340

    1” bushings for shackles
  • Energy suspension (2-2117G)- $9
  • Bilstein RCD shocks (RCD-70-56663)- $400
For a grand total of $2,311, if you use the more expensive A body rear sway bar and 142# springs. :D

But, that includes the torsion bars, shocks, and reinforced LCA's with greasable pivots, which would cost an extra $885 to add to the TVR kit. So, you're looking at a savings of $675. And you're pretty close to comparing like to like with that. True, you don't get heims, or the hotchkis sway bars (which are awesome), but everything will basically function the same on a street car. You also don't get the Hotchkis rear springs, which a lot of folks have had problems with. I have the 121lb Afco's on my Duster, and they work great. I listed the 142's for the 111" wheelbase cars, probably a better idea. The 121's sit just above "zero arch" on my Duster. They also have a reinforced front section for improved handling, they're basically circle track springs.

And you can use your extra money to put in some frame connectors and torque boxes, or buy better brakes, or a Borgeson steering box, or a set of Mustang rims, etc. etc.

Just my .02...
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't see this till now. I guess I could piece together a kit. I'm still on the fence. However, luckily Summit sells things separately so maybe I can modify your list a bit. I've heard about the boots for the heims and I've used them before in my off-roading vehicle. They seemed to hold up pretty well, but those were just tie rods that barely experienced any load. However, it definitely seems like Hotchkis has put some more engineering and testing into their parts and I do plan on taking it to the track and have some spirited driving sessions. The other problem with UCA's is that I have the small ball joints still and won't be able to swap over for another year. I know Hotchkis sells both the ball joints and arms w/ ball joints separately, but that means I'm going to need a tool to either replace the ball joints or replace the entire arm (if I go with a firm feel or pst). I also already have the Bilstein shocks installed with about 1000 miles on it so we can take that off the price. The AFCO springs seem to have a little bit of a higher spring rate as well for roughly the same price.

As far as the other stuff. I'm thinking about fabbing my own subframe connectors as it doesn't look all that difficult. I'd upgrade my brakes with Dr Diff stuff probably in a year when I swap over to bbp. I might go ahead and buy the Borgeson Box when I do the suspension rebuild. I know I'm going to need a new pump at the very least. And I can get a set of Mustang rims for cheap or maybe for free from my friend. He has a set lying around in his garage he isn't using although, I'm not really a fan of the look it might be cheaper to go with those at first instead of buying new wheels all together.

The only problem is I don't want to get too ahead of myself as I'm still pretty new to working on cars and stuff.
 
So this is what I was thinking of to get the best of both worlds while still being a little money conscious:

  • 1.06 (or bigger) Firm Feel torsion bars - $355
  • Tubular UCA’s (Hotchkis from Summit)- $650
  • Adjustable strut rods (Hotchkis from Summit)- $300
  • 11/16" Tie Rods (Firm Feel)- $225
  • LCA boxing plate (PST LCAPLTMOP621)- $14.50 x 2
  • Greasable LCA pins with Bushings (Hotchkis from Summit)- $125
  • Front and Rear Sway Bars (Hotchkis from Summit)- $600
    Afco leaf springs (20231, 142 lb)- $340
  • 1” bushings for shackles (Energy Suspension, 2-2117G)- $9
Now, if I get the Hotchkis UCA's I can buy the smaller ball joints and replace them. Or, I can just get the MOOG offset bushings and replace the ball joints on my current UCA's and just buy the tubular stuff when I do my bbp/brakes swap... Lots of options... :/
 
I think if I just replace and get the offset bushings on my UCA's I should be fine for now. I'll just buy the UCA's when I swap over to bbp. I'll just use the extra cash I save by not getting the UCA for tools, subframe connectors, and/or possibly a Borgeson box.
 
I would recommend hitting the junkyard and making a bastard pack for the rear leaves... super cheap and you can fine-tune the height and stiffness by mixing and matching leaves. FWIW i have 1" t-bars from just suspension and they are fantastic, wayyy less body roll but still has that smooth torsion bar ride ha
 
Make sure you use a good set of shocks that are adjustable or designed for stiffer suspensions (i.e. bilsteins, fox, Qa1). The Hotchkis Bilsteins were the only way to tame the TVS on my Scamp. It still is stiff but not to the point where it is uncomfortable to drive long distances.
 
fastbackmopar said:
Make sure you use a good set of shocks that are adjustable or designed for stiffer suspensions (i.e. bilsteins, fox, Qa1). The Hotchkis Bilsteins were the only way to tame the TVS on my Scamp. It still is stiff but not to the point where it is uncomfortable to drive long distances.
Click to expand...

I already have the Bilstein's on there... Still trying to see what I'm going to do about an engine/drivetrain to replace my 273. I'm trying to think of the best way to do this with the least amount of down time. I have an entire slanty K frame with UCA, LCA, and most the steering linkages on the side out of a '71 Demon I could use. So it would just be an engine on K-frame swap and then all I'd have to do was swap the spindles with my KH disc brakes. The only problem is that the K-frame seems to have been hit at one point (may be repairable) and since I already have a sb K-frame in the car, it would be best if I just kept using it (if I went the sb route).
 

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I'd leave that bent K-frame out of it. It can probably be fixed, but you already have a good SB K frame so why mess with it?
 
Naake has the qa1 upper and lower control arms and strut rods, and torsion bars too I think. The price is decent as well. I'm about to put the whole deal on my 70 duster with a sbp.
 
Ouch, that is a heck of a whack to the K-member. I would'n want to have to straighten it back out.
 
DTMRacing said:
Good way to practice K-Frame fixing. Here is some pictures of K-Frame repair we did on a 74 Duster. I get my re-enforcement kits from Firm Feel.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.559435747413893.1073741826.305030966187707&type=3
Click to expand...

Nice work!

I reinforced the K frame for my EL5 GT with a kit from Firm Feel. When I did the one for my Duster I just made the plates up myself. The FFI kit is nice, but I found that I had to modify the kit enough to make it worthwhile to just make the reinforcements myself.
 
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