abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
Anything more IMO for everyday street use is a waste of money,
bigger bars (.920 min.) are perfect for daily driving. improves things light years.
Anything more IMO for everyday street use is a waste of money,
bigger bars (.920 min.) are perfect for daily driving. improves things light years.
, my son is 20 and your right about the difference in cars his daily ride is a neon r/t so big suspension difference, he knows the Duster cant be that good we just want to make it a little firmer
... The Neon r/t's and Neon-based SRT4's aren't a difficult mark actually, unlike brand new cars they don't have any traction control options, no electronic steering, or computer controlled suspension. Nothing magic, just struts/coilovers and rack and pinion steering. Very attainable...
My car is set up like this....
1.12" Firm Feel torsion bars
Magnumforce tubular UCAs (non-adjustable)
Adjustable strut rods
Solid tie rod sleeves
LCA boxing plates
Greasable LCA pins (Firm Feel w/ poly bushings)
Hellwig Sway bars (Tubular front 1 1/8 #55904, E body solid rear 7/8 #6908 ) Afco leaf springs (20231M -121 lb)
Hotchkis Fox shocks (non-adjustable)
13" front rotors (cobra style kit from Dr. Diff) w/ 15/16 late style master cylinder
11"x2.5" rear drums (for now)
Torque boxes, subframe connectors, and "J" bars (firewall to forward frame rails, shock mounts tied in)
1/2" rear spring offset
275/35/18 front tires on 18x9" rims
295/35/18 rear tires on 18x10" rims
Flaming River 16:1 manual steering box
There's probably a few things I left out, but that's most of it. All the info is in my build thread for my Duster, link is in my signature. It's obviously a very different driving experience than something like a Neon R/T, but from a handling performance standpoint you can definitely even the playing field...
While I agree with most of what you are saying, I have a 96 Neon ACR. First Generation ACR's, R/T's included, could pull over a G on a skid pad and are amazing in corners. I have almost no transition going from the ACR to the 66 Formula S, but I'm absolutely fearless in the corners with the ACR. The 66 Formula S is stock, with factory 16:1 box, rebuilt by Firm Feel, stock .87 TBars, all MOOG ball joints and bushings, factory front sway bar and HD factory 48 year old rear leaf springs. What I'm trying to say is, not many cars can pull over a G on the skidpad, so when someone has a 1st generation Neon, they know what a great handling car is. Not much will touch one of them in the corners. But a well set up A is a great handler, do some reading up on the Mopar Action Green Brick.
i currently drive a SRT in GS and a have recently retired my regular neon in STC. this season i started to also drive my 67 barracuda in CAM. Car is mostly stock 1.03 + hellwig FSB, 3/4 rear swaybar, FF UCA, 73+ abody disks and willwood proportioning with manual disk/drum brakes. 17x8 and 225/45 ZII's, and a shot power steering chuck and slow federal pump.
the A-body has potential. even with my weak 273 commando, slaloms where pleasantly surprised by the turn in even with PS going out on the 3rd cone. no doubt that is mostly due to RWD.
Neon SRT4 track and WB weight
58in 105in 2900LBS
Abody cuda
57.5 108 3200lbs(?)
so its approximately the same "size" as a neon (minus the overhang) and RWD and better FWD geometry, nearly unlimited mods allowed in CAM and only a few hundred pounds . Yeah it SHOULD be faster in RAW. however it needs to beat my SRT by 1.14 seconds on a 60second course... add power, wider wheels and tires, thats doable but is going to take some work. the SRT is turn and burn and top 5 on index every time.
AutoX is won by weight and wheelbase, period. IMO the A body is in the ballpark and could be locally competitive without getting wild.
72bluNblu it is not really fair to compare much to a NASCAR car of any era to a street car. Or your car to be honest. But it does show what the basic A body is capable of. The 66 Formula S is very capable and will embarrass most cars. I definitely agree with you about tires.
actually a early 70s mopar stock car is VERY comparable, because they used factory unibodys, and the same torsion bar/leaf spring design as the street cars. Back in those days, they were much different from today
i'd like to see those CAM results compared with the rest of the field. Say a newer Mustang in ESP or anything ESP or even C, D, F stock.
and yes i need more tire. I'd like to go to 255 or so on a 17x9. I've become a convert of not overtiring wheels.
You mean too wide a tire on a narrow(er) rim?
If you could run a 275 on a 10" wide rim would you prefer that over a 255 on a 9" wide rim??
right! too wide of a tire for the width of the wheel. While it works in some cases in others it feels "wallowy" though it depends on driving style/setup if that works for you. When in doubt save money and tire shoulders and enjoy steering response. or if you have deep pockets test back to back. More tire is not always better unless you have enough wheel to support it. In both of your examples i don't think either is overtired. A 275 on a 8" would be too much, but people do it all the time i think to a placebo or even detrimental effect. Either way in your examples I would fit the widest wheel.
In my heavy~ish FWD cars I prefer a 205 on a 7" rather than a 225 on the same wheel. The 225s the barracuda feel awesome on on 8" wheel, and i would have gone 245 if i had came across a similar deal. I'm still building it out and trying to not get serious ;-)
bigger bars (.920 min.) are perfect for daily driving. improves things light years.
In your opinion, is a 275/40/17 on a 9" too small and better to run 255/40/17 on a 9"?
Would you pick 275/40/17 on a 17x10 over a 255/40/17 on a 17x9?
this is an awesome thread thanks for the help, I am going to start with the basics hear and add mods as required and as listed, I do have one question on the torsion bars though as I have never changed them before, do the larger bars require different mount brackets or do you simply upgrade the bar size meaning the ends are the same diameter, thanks
actually a early 70s mopar stock car is VERY comparable, because they used factory unibodys, and the same torsion bar/leaf spring design as the street cars. Back in those days, they were much different from today
You aren't really trying to tell me that a NASCAR suspension is like a street car suspension? Other than basic design. I have too much respect for them. The roll cages tying everything together, the adjustability, the spring rates, attention to detail, and the ability to run 200+ mph.