The best suspension upgrade for cornering?
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bjkadron
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After that?
1968FormulaS340
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autoxcuda will probibly have the best answer….
What class and what do the class rules allow? That will help get him/us started on a direction.
What class and what do the class rules allow? That will help get him/us started on a direction.
Stormy69
Dusted
axcuda already said it, bushings, bar, shocks.....
autoxcuda
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And TIRES like 68Cuda said. 17" because you can't get good 15" tires anymore. And if you ever what big brakes they will fit. And got at least 8" wide rim. Preferably 17x9 with 275/40/17 ALL the way around. Some body styles won't allow that. Head towards 17x8or9 Mustang rims/tires on Craiglist/Ebay.
If you can afford that just run some 15x7 cop rims and some 225/60/15 tires with a high speed rating. That's what I did.
You can even scratch shocks from that list that are over $40/ea from that list in terms of importance and amount of difference.
Then go out and get your feet wet.
Then add front and rear sway bar with an adjustable rear sway. Then get some rear springs. Some stock height 340 or one size firmer (~160lbs/in) same size on both sides. If you want something better then Hotchkis rear leaf. Then add some better shocks and expensive shocks like bilstein/koni/QA1.
Stock disk or 11.75 upgrade stock disks are fine for autocross. If you want to do much time on a road course you'll proabably want to upgrade to 13" disks with a ARengineering brembo setup or Willwood 6 piston type.
bjkadron
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Well tha class is the Group 1 A sedan class in the VARA. Very restrictive.. Stock pickup points stock type, no heim joints in the suspension.. Can use poly.. Stuff like that.
bjkadron
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Ok About my car(s). One is an in progress race car that I'm building for the class I mentioned above, A somewhat long term project.. The other is a stock 72 Duster that is my commuter and "rolling test bed" for my ideas. I need advice for both.
Some questions
That's what I'm planning to do, 15's them move to 17's (on my street Duster). But on the other one the rules limit me to 15's.
So get cheap shocks first? Does it not matter that much? Stock replacement? or something like KYB Gas-a just?
That's the plan!
Do you have any pictures of an adjustable rear-swaybar? I would love to see pics and how they mount. What about torsion bars? Do you need to stiffen up the front or do you rely on the swaybars for roll stiffness and runs the soft rates for max mechanical grip? Do you have any problems with wheel hop with the stock springs? Where is a good place to get springs?
I'm going to the 11.75 discs on the street car Later to be upgraded to 13's). but the rules say that I have to have the stock rotor dia and width. So I'm not sure what I'll do to increase braking performance..
Some questions
That's what I'm planning to do, 15's them move to 17's (on my street Duster). But on the other one the rules limit me to 15's.
So get cheap shocks first? Does it not matter that much? Stock replacement? or something like KYB Gas-a just?
That's the plan!
Do you have any pictures of an adjustable rear-swaybar? I would love to see pics and how they mount. What about torsion bars? Do you need to stiffen up the front or do you rely on the swaybars for roll stiffness and runs the soft rates for max mechanical grip? Do you have any problems with wheel hop with the stock springs? Where is a good place to get springs?
I'm going to the 11.75 discs on the street car Later to be upgraded to 13's). but the rules say that I have to have the stock rotor dia and width. So I'm not sure what I'll do to increase braking performance..
bjkadron
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A couple more questions (for now)... Where would you suggest getting the springs? I have 318 springs are they the same rate? And torsion bars? are the stock 318 bars the same as the 340?
autoxcuda
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Stock 318 air conditioning T-bars are the same as 340 T-bars. Both aren't very stiff for handling.
Which car? The street car or the VARA racer?
Aggressive street car: .99 to 1.10 T-bars. 130-150 lbs/in HD 340 leafs
VARA racer: 1.22-1.24 T-bars .160-180 lbs/in leafs
for VARA A-body info read here: www.teamstarfish.com COPY his basic setup.
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
You know… This thread (the first half) cracks me up.
The original poster asked for advise on how to make his car handle well…
Then he ignored the advise…..
This is a classic case of not asking the right question in the first place…
His real question should have been…
"I want to spend a bunch of money on my rear suspension so i can tell my friends how expensive my rear suspension was"…. The cornering characteristics never did matter…
The original poster asked for advise on how to make his car handle well…
Then he ignored the advise…..
This is a classic case of not asking the right question in the first place…
His real question should have been…
"I want to spend a bunch of money on my rear suspension so i can tell my friends how expensive my rear suspension was"…. The cornering characteristics never did matter…
bjkadron
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Yeah.. Well personally I'm rather glad he did ask... it got me on the right track to a bunch of useful information!
1968FormulaS340
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very true. This turned out to be a good thread.
bjkadron
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So I'm still a little confused about some things... Should I get cheap shocks first? Does it not matter that much? Stock replacement? or something like KYB Gas-a just?
Do you have any pictures of an adjustable rear-swaybar? I would love to see pics and how they mount.
About torsion bars: Do you need to stiffen up the front that much or can you rely on the swaybars for roll stiffness and runs the soft rates for max mechanical grip? As Herb Adams suggests.
Where is a good place to get springs?
Thanks for the link! I have been looking for someone else who is racing a-bodes! Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to argue with you as I'm just trying to get as much info as possible! Thanks again for your great advice!
Do you have any pictures of an adjustable rear-swaybar? I would love to see pics and how they mount.
About torsion bars: Do you need to stiffen up the front that much or can you rely on the swaybars for roll stiffness and runs the soft rates for max mechanical grip? As Herb Adams suggests.
Where is a good place to get springs?
Thanks for the link! I have been looking for someone else who is racing a-bodes! Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to argue with you as I'm just trying to get as much info as possible! Thanks again for your great advice!
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
poly bushings, sway bars , heavier torsion bars.
Get the car ride height 'level', front to rear.
Get the car ride height 'level', front to rear.
v8val
v8val
When you mentioned the brakes, bjkadron, It says stock size rotors but does it mention calipers?? If not thats where you can get your performance. get the best calipers you can fit in 15's. some 4 or even 6 piston calipers that have pads with the largest swept area you can get to fit. Here are some pics from a local racer in his Australian 340 Charger(a body) this class has to run stock diameter rotors but calipers are free.
Sorry the pics are so small, its all i had. But you can see how tight the fit is
Sorry the pics are so small, its all i had. But you can see how tight the fit is
v8val
v8val
Man those pics are near useless aren't they, sorry.
autoxcuda
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I'm just saying to hold off on the shocks cause they are so expensive ($500+). The extra $400 can be used to make bigger impacts first.
The stiffer the T-bars the more immediate need for good shocks. My .99 T-bars would be acceptable with $120/4 KYB's. They typically make the .99's ride harsher, life expentacy is cut, it will wollow some... People have run HD Monroe with .99 T-bars.
Those are really nice. I wish I had one. Here's pictures of a super smoth install.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=28382
I've installed the rear addco's in both of my A-bodies. They suck. Look at my signiture pictures. I show pictures of the rear Addco install in my 68 Dart. There washers that I think are rubbing the body, I think it's got a little preload because the angle of the links aren't perfect...
I've run all kinds of combinations. None of them made the car explode.
Problem is there are quite a bit of varation in price. The one made JR Springs that JC Whitney sells seem like a good deal. As well as the stock height XHD Mopar Performance ones. Those should be about 383 rate (140 lbs/in).
What rear springs do you have on your car. Was it a 318 car? 318 with air or towing package?
I've got OE issued 40+ year old 1968 340 springs on my Barracuda.
Again, if you are working on a budget.. I do rebuild front end, T-bars, tires, sway bars... In that order. If you have something that is totally worn out (like shocks or tires) you may need to alter than order.
Mike has evolved his car from a autocrossing street car to a VARA in the last 13+ I've known him. His website was one of few (relatively) personal Mopar websites back in the day.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
I've got OE issued 318 with air.
I was thinking Poly Bushings, rebuild front-end, and KYB shocks in the first whack when I do the swap to front discs. Then Swap to 17x9 mustang wheels with 275/40's and a BBP disc rear (I'm pretty sure the 7 1/4 rear and 14" tires are on borrowed time). Then do torsion bars and Adjustable Swaybars (I was thinking about the splined nascar type.). And finally get some nice adjustable shocks. Does this sound like a good plan?
bjkadron
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When you mentioned the brakes, bjkadron, It says stock size rotors but does it mention calipers?? If not thats where you can get your performance. get the best calipers you can fit in 15's. some 4 or even 6 piston calipers that have pads with the largest swept area you can get to fit. Here are some pics from a local racer in his Australian 340 Charger(a body) this class has to run stock diameter rotors but calipers are free.
Sorry the pics are so small, its all i had. But you can see how tight the fit is
Actually they prohibit aftermarket calipers. I'll have to use the stock ones with good pads and upgraded hubs and multi-piece rotors.
autoxcuda
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Don't bother with the rear disc. You're going to have over $179 in the rear disc. Anyway you could get a 8 1/4?. Is your 7 1/4 right now small bolt pattern? Take rear disc money and buy front T-bars.
Can you find a flaming deal on a LBP 7 1/4? You don't have a mega motor in it right now?
The fun factor of front .99 T-bar over rear discs is like 10 time PLUS.
Sounds good. You might want too fit a thick 15"-16" steering wheel and some bucket seats in there someplace.
It's great that you have a road map. Now, figure out the market on those future parts new and used. Then keep on the lookout for the deals and super deals on used parts. Strike when the situation is right. Create your own oppurtunties, create your own luck.
mopardude318
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Hey Autoxcuda...I've been using all the help you've been giving me through PM's, and I've been rebuilding my front suspension accordingly, and I thank you very much for that! I have a question on something you posted above:
Right now I'm using new KYB shocks (will upgrade later to more expensive QA1's); and the 1.0" torsion bars that you recommended. When you say the kyb shocks make the torsion bars ride harsher, and cut life expectancy, is it the shock's life that is cut down, or the torsion bar's life expectancy? and explain the 'wollow'. lol
Thanks
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
I was planning on swapping in an 8.8" with rear discs on it.. Kinda kill two birds with one stone type deal. I do have a LBP 7 1/4 that is in the parts car I got the spindles off of. But I'm not sure whether it would be worth it to swap the rear out twice. And yes its a 72 so its all small bolt pattern. No I don't have a mega motor... and I don't drag it... But I'm just itching to put this supercharger on it!!
Oh yes.. The thick steering wheel and buckets are on the list I was just talking about my plans for the suspension. Actually I have PS so I was thinking 13-14" for the steering wheel.
So the 318 W/air springs are the same as the 340? Or should I add them to the upgrade list also? And are Poly bushings good for the rear springs(I've heard conflicting reports)?
autoxcuda
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The guys that have cars with larger than 1" T-bars AND KYB note that when they have changed to Koni, QA1's, Spax shocks the car gets a little smother. The bigger the T-bars the bigger the difference the better shock made. The KYB's just can't keep up with the high spring rate. Thus you might not get 30K miles out of KYB's and 1" T-bars. But how long is it going to be before you drive 30K miles.
For a 1" T-bar the KYB's aren't bad. I switched from KYB to QA1's and it's not a huge difference. But the KYB would sort of hunt around on 40-60mph posted freeway interchanges when hitting small bumps. Some people jump to the conclusion that is bump steer. But when I changed the shocks it got better.
mopardude318
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so, would these be a good upgrade?:
http://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16170&cat=267&page=1
or something even more extreme?
http://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16170&cat=267&page=1
or something even more extreme?
autoxcuda
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Those are the QA1's I metioned. They are $139 each. I would do other stuff off the check list first before dropping $560 on shocks. And the bolt on easy and you don't have to re-align the car after installing them.
I found a set for $75/pair at the swap meet. :cheers:
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