The newest "building a slant six" thread
- Thread starter Cruisingram
- Start date
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my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Going hydraulic you will also be needing :
Hydraulic Rocker Shaft
Hydraulic Rocker Arms
Hydraulic Push Rods
Hydraulic Lifters
Hydraulic Rocker Shaft Mounting Hardware
Hydraulic Cylinder Head
The Hydraulic motors also had an oil pump with a wider rotor, so get one of those also.
I'll do My best, w/o actual head flow #'s, & I installed it only 2deg advanced.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
John, I'm am not aware of any reason to use a hydraulic cyl head. And the shaft mounting hardware is the same as far as I know. The only issue is the rear shaft mounting bolt. it must match the head. You are correct about needing the arms, shaft, pushrods and lifters.
The after market replacement oil pump, for any slant is the size Mopar used on the hydro motors, so no problem there.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware of that, either, until about 2 years go. someone mentioned it online. I had two hydro engines, on hand. One that was given to me, and one in my truck. So I looked, and sure enough, they both had the bigger pump. Now I make no garuntee, these are original from the factory. I can't check part numbers, as my parts manuals don't go that new.
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
When I mentioned the shaft mounting hardware and cylinder head I was thinking of the rear bolt, but actually those are present on the hydraulic head as a poke a yoke to make sure the rocker arm shaft is set in place correctly. I thought that necked down rear hold down bolt allowed for more oil flow. I know that when I went the other way, made a hydraulic head into a mechanical lifter head I had to put a restriction in that passage to reduce the oil flow to the rockers, but maybe the increased oil flow is due to the full circle groove in the rear cam journal, which the OP will also need.
And yes, the hydraulic oil pumps are available, but the original poster would still need to get one.
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my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Later today when I am in the garage I’ll check the FSM for the oil pump rotor width for a 68 Slant and an 83 Slant. The 83 will be thicker.
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
68 slant with mechanical lifters, oil pump rotor thickness .649
83 slant with hydraulic lifters, oil pump rotor thickness .825
From a 68 and a 83 FSM
Also, the OE oil pump on the 83 slant and the oil pump from an 87 slant grabbed at a pull a part were both light weight aluminum castings. All the aftermarket slant oil pumps that I have seen are iron.
Cruisingram
Well-Known Member
From the car it came out of. Guy got an original Dart and pulled the motor out of, I can't recall what year dart it was though- he put in a small block, it's how I got the motor- he wanted a V8
Just for clarity, the torque curves I am referencing are represented by;
1) stk early cam 225, true 8:1 static, Super6 setup w/opened up exh.
2) 225 OCG 2106R, 9:1 static, same induction & exh., ported head & o/s valves(mid-upper level flow rates, max 177cfm).
The take away here being that no Tq is given up 1500 & above over stk., & very little is lost below 1500, with significant gains in the mid-range.
1) stk early cam 225, true 8:1 static, Super6 setup w/opened up exh.
2) 225 OCG 2106R, 9:1 static, same induction & exh., ported head & o/s valves(mid-upper level flow rates, max 177cfm).
The take away here being that no Tq is given up 1500 & above over stk., & very little is lost below 1500, with significant gains in the mid-range.
Cruisingram
Well-Known Member
A member here is going to sell me his whole hydra set up, and is local to Oregon cams so will deliver the cam to me there to do the swap. So- to date, this is where I am at- I am going over to my shop on Saturday to get a better look at this motor- when I got it, it was get and go and did not have time to really look at it- for all I know, could be a hydra set up already! - Okay- I will take pics and post soon as I do. I have a two barrel manifold on the way, plan on removing the head, taking .080 off, to up the CR. Will grind out the exhaust to 2.5". Cam is still the debate issue for me. If I have already hydra, what is the consensus, a regrind or leave stock? I have a 38 square bore weber. I am thinking I will almost double the HP and Torque the 170ci in it currently has with this build? With that, I am good. I have toyed a bit of a super mild turbo in the future, 6psi max, due to massive altitude changes I frequently see on the island. I have to say, it wasn't too bad in the 170 in it now going from sea level to 5k feet this last week. Noticeable loss in power, but serviceable.
I am not sure what the hydro-cam stock specs are, but the "intake opens" specs I've seen are 6*BTDC, the '71&up solids are 16*BTDC. I don't think I have a FSM for '81 & up Slanty coverage. I would get those 1st, but it "appears" pretty small, an upgrade would likely make it better.
Something that gets overlooked on the hydraulic engines is the groove that must be in the rear camshaft journal for proper oiling to the lifters. Even the Comp camshafts lack them and they must be added.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
If he is getting a complete hydo assembly, the cam core he is getting to Oregon Cams will have the groove.
PS: I add this groove to every slant cam I install, even solid lifter pieces.
moparblood
Well-Known Member
aside from adjusting the valves, whats the upside to a hydraulic setup?
Good question
I've thought of doing that as well, but have not as of yet. Do you think it has any benefit on a solid lifter engine?
IMO the only "up" side if you can call it that is less noise. How much trouble is removing the valve cover MAYBE once every two years for valve adjustments? Honestly, if someone is going hydraulic for that reason, there's always stamp collecting. LOL
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
With the stock solid lifter setup, there are two holes in the cam bearing, and two holes in the cam. The only time the valve train gets oil, is when these holes lineup. I have seen the holes in the cam and the bearings be off, and not line up properly. This will restrict the oil flow to the valve train. I just use a die grinder, with a cutoff wheel, to grind a groove in the cam journal (not bearing). Sometimes this will result in too much top end oil. Before I install the head, I tap the oil feed hole in the rear rocker stand, so I can screw in a restrictor if necessary. Head does not have to be removed to change the restrictor, just the rocker shaft.
That's pretty smart, Charlie. Thanks. What do you use for a restrictor? What size do you tap to?
To add to My above post, the DC/MP cams once offered were; 240*/.398"/24*OL, & 250*/.420"/38*OL as performance upgrades. I'm curious if it works out to be 224*, maybe @my68barracuda will be able to get that from the FSM He referenced for Us.
andrew3408
1969 Plymouth valiant
Slant 6: 170, 198, 225
244° Mechanical: P4120243
Intake Duration, Nominal
244°
Exhaust Duration, Nominal
244°
Intake Duration @ .050
190°
Exhaust Duration @ .050”
190°
Intake Lobe Centerline
106° ATDC
Exhaust Lobe Centerline
110°BTDC
Lobe Separation Angle
108°
Overlap
28°
Intake Opens
16° BTDC
Exhaust Opens
52° BBDC
Intake Closes
48° ABDC
Exhaust Closes
12° ATDC
Intake Lift
.436"
Exhaust Lift
.436"
Note: as installed on 106° centerline per Chrysler
ne per Chrysler
244° Mechanical: P4120243
Intake Duration, Nominal
244°
Exhaust Duration, Nominal
244°
Intake Duration @ .050
190°
Exhaust Duration @ .050”
190°
Intake Lobe Centerline
106° ATDC
Exhaust Lobe Centerline
110°BTDC
Lobe Separation Angle
108°
Overlap
28°
Intake Opens
16° BTDC
Exhaust Opens
52° BBDC
Intake Closes
48° ABDC
Exhaust Closes
12° ATDC
Intake Lift
.436"
Exhaust Lift
.436"
Note: as installed on 106° centerline per Chrysler
ne per Chrysler
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
The only cam info that is in the FSM is the specs for the original equipment cams. Is that what you are looking for?
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