timing chain installation questions

-
SirDan

SirDan

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
1,663
Reaction score
57
Location
Long island, New York
It seems the timing has jumped on my 73 darts 318 engine. i guess the car has 140k not 40k. anyway i have changed a toyota timing chain so im not clueless here. i just would like to know what needs to come off and maybe some tips or tricks to ease the installation. also is this a 1 day project?
 
The timing cover and everything in front of it has to come off. the flat sqaure area on the top of that timing cover is thin and will crack. No pry bars there.
I'd like to know how you dianosed the problem. Guys have pulled the timing cover over a bad ballast resistor , or altenater, etc...
 
front two bolts on the oil pan go into the bottom of the timing chain cover...
 
RedFish said:
The timing cover and everything in front of it has to come off. the flat sqaure area on the top of that timing cover is thin and will crack. No pry bars there.
I'd like to know how you dianosed the problem. Guys have pulled the timing cover over a bad ballast resistor , or altenater, etc...
Click to expand...

well i tried to throw the timing light on the car and nomatter where i put the distributer its not right. the timing marks will not line up. at the moment i just set the timing by feel. it roasts the tires from a standstill down low then when it gets up there allitle it starts knocking and pining. move the timing back allitle and it backfires out the carb. if you set it to the factory timing spec it just backfires and pops and has no power. i really dont think its anything else. the carb is rebuilt, its got new plugs, wires, rotor, cap.
 
pop the cap and put a scoket and racket on the crank watch the dis/ rotor when you move the crank see if there a lot of play before the rotor turns /go both ways see if it moves at the same time or takes a while be for the rotor turns. als
 
SirDan said:
well i tried to throw the timing light on the car and nomatter where i put the distributer its not right. the timing marks will not line up. at the moment i just set the timing by feel. it roasts the tires from a standstill down low then when it gets up there allitle it starts knocking and pining. move the timing back allitle and it backfires out the carb. if you set it to the factory timing spec it just backfires and pops and has no power. i really dont think its anything else. the carb is rebuilt, its got new plugs, wires, rotor, cap.
Click to expand...
it would run really bad if it jumped a tooth because thats like 9 or more degrees off on cam timing! u need to pull the plugs and feel for pressure out of number one cyl. then make sure the cyl, number one is at TDC. stab the distrubutor so ts dead onto number one. then adj the valves (if solid cam). and it sounds like ur adv it more when u play with the distributor!
 
SirDan said:
well i tried to throw the timing light on the car and nomatter where i put the distributer its not right. the timing marks will not line up. at the moment i just set the timing by feel. it roasts the tires from a standstill down low then when it gets up there allitle it starts knocking and pining. move the timing back allitle and it backfires out the carb. if you set it to the factory timing spec it just backfires and pops and has no power. i really dont think its anything else. the carb is rebuilt, its got new plugs, wires, rotor, cap.
Click to expand...

Is this a vacuum advance distributor? What's your total timing?
 
does it have the orginal damper on it...

the other ring could of slipped which means the timing marks will not line up...

71 dart with old 318 had the damper slip and i could get timing marks to line up....had to time it by ear...
 
wow lots of replies. okay first off there is lots of play in the chain. me and my father made sure we were at TDC all 10 times we messed with the distributer. then we tried putting it a tooth forward or backwards. i really dont think the damper moved since i cant get the timing to feel good anywhere. the best i can get it right now is it has tons of torque down low (lights the tire up with factory 2.something gears easily then pings and loses power). also is the tensioner on this motor powered by oil pressure? i swear when i started it today i could hear the chain making noise the first couple of seconds then it went away. idk what do you mopar masters think?
 
Are the centrifugal advance weights moving correctly in the dist? Even if its not the chain jumped, at least if you pull it apart you'll be able to inspect and replace if necessary.
I agree with a previous post that if it did jump, it would run like crap all around. Thats just my experience.
 
There is probably no tensioner at all in your engine. The aftermarket may offer one today. If you heard the chain slap the inside of the cover... there's your sign.
Prelube the new chain well when installing. Good luck
 
at first we thought the vacuum advance wasent working proporly so we pulled a distributer out of another engine in the garage. when it gets back form the alignment shop ill check it out some more.
 
You can check for play by rotating the engine clock wise with the dist cap off. Then stop and turn it counter clockwise very slowly. See how far the crank turns before the rotor turns backwards. If it's more than a few degrees the chain is shot and needs to be changed. If you bring it to TDC on compression on number 1 and the rotor doesnt point at the #1 plug hole, something's off.
 
the first few times we set it we put it in pointing the number 1 cylinder and set at the factory timing setting it would just backfire out the carb like crazy. we also tried setting it parallel with the camshaft. i know the dart haynes manual only says to point it to the number 1 cylinder BUT, my dad had a van book for like 70s and 80s dodge vans and i think it said later engines (or some kind of LA made) were set parallel with the cam. at this point of frustration the possiblity of an engine swap by the previous owner seemed possible. parallel to the camshaft sadly did not work either. my dad checked the freeplay im not sure how much it was tho cause i was under the car with the socket wrench. but hes thinking it might be the timing chain.

i think if it was a problem with the distributer advancing it would run right down low on the factory timing specs then not run too good up top. but then again thats my guess on what that symptom would be like. right now the initial timing isent even close to the marker on the engine block.
 
Just to clear the water... Its not pointed at the #1 cylinder , its pointed at the #1 wire on the cap.
 
pop the cap and put a scoket and racket on the crank watch the dis/ rotor when you move the crank see if there a lot of play before the rotor turns /go both ways see if it moves at the same time or takes a while be for the rotor turns. als or pull number 1 plug crank it over till you feel compresion then see what plug the rotor is pointing at. then reset you plug wires to that set up. als
 
Sounds to me like you have it out of time. Just because you put the distributor in pointing at # one cylinder when the balancer was on TDC don't mean it's right. You have a 4 cycle engine so there are 2 top dead centers (TDC). Theirs TDC exhaust stroke and TDC power stroke. If it backfired you probably had it on TDC exhaust stroke when it should have been on power stroke. Also if it had enough power to roast the tires before you messed with it, unless the tires are crap, I can't believe the chain has jumped. And just because it doesn't have much RPM capacity doesn't mean the timing is the problem. The carb can also cause that problem along with a few other things.

To get it timed pull the #1 spark plug and stick your finger in the hole and have your dad quick bump the starter until you feel it blow compression out. Watch the balancer closely when doing this. When you feel compression stop the balancer a few degrees short of TDC and install the distributor pointing the rotor at the front left intake manifold bolt. It should be close enough to start then you can try setting the timing. And remember when you set the timing to disconnect the vacuum advance or it'll give an false reading.

What Tony mentioned about the harmonic balancer outer ring slipping is pretty common on old cars of every make. When that happens you can't set the timing with a timing light. Here's an easy way to check if the balancer has slipped. Being really careful you insert a piece of wire such as a straightened out coat hanger down the # one spark plug hole and have somebody using a socket and ratchet on the front balancer slowly turn the engine over clockwise and when the piston has pushed the wire exactly as far as it will push it up the balancer should be real close to TDC. Be super careful doing it that you don't get the wire bent over in the cylinder and screw up a valve or piston. Keep the wire good and straight and let the piston push it up, not sideways. If you find the balancer slipped replace it right away.

BTW: Also note that if anybody has ever had the distributor drive shaft taken out and didn't put it back in pointing the right way you won't be able to set it by the book where it shows the rotor pointing where the book says it should point (the front left intake manifold bolt on LA engines). That's also where the #1 plug wire on the distributor cap should be if somebody hasn't rearranged the wires. I have ran into this numerous times. Only way to correct it would be to take the distributor out and reposition the distributor/oil pump driveshaft. BTW: It really don't hurt if it's not pointing at #1 cylinder because all the engine cares is if the timing is correctly set. Only problem I have ever seen it cause was some plug wires may not reach correctly since the distributor is not positioned where the factory intended it.
 
Good advice Tracy...........I forgot about a balancer slipping, even though I just exploded mine a few weeks ago.:toothy10:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top