Timing help for '64 Dart, 225 CI

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jwicker

jwicker

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Hey all,

I feel like I've read every post on timing and I'm just not seeing the clear results I'm expecting.

all timing number are btdc.

With my distributor clocked all the way clockwise (as far as it can go with the little channel the bolt goes through), the engine ran fine, about 18* initial timing. (According to Hobo Freight "xenon" light). Yes I verified TDC and the mark on the pulley using #1 cylinder and some wire on piston head.

All timing checked with distributor vacuum removed from carb, and the tube plugged (tube on carb). All timing checked warm.

I've seen posts about using vacuum to adjust timing and that seems to do nothing for me.... I never saw vacuum change while adjusting timing all the way left, and right (distributor), while measuring at the manifold. Again, hobo freight, could be junk gauge.

I adjusted the timing to 24* initial and it ran much stronger / faster. I did this because another post said to turn the distributor counter clockwise until the engine stops revving higher, then lock it down. The engine felt like it woke up on test drives, however, the cranking during start seems far more labored. It's like the starter was working really hard.

I backed it off to 22* initial for now and it's right in the middle of starting easy(ish) and running strong, but I can't help but think I've missed the forest for the trees here.....

Any advice is very welcome. Is that harder cranking normal on "good" timing? I never got my engine to "ping" but I don't quite know what that would sound like either..... I run 91 octane with no additive in my gas if that matters. Feel free to call me dumb and point out the super obvious thing I missed, I just feel like I had a very vague experience adjusting timing, and my results didn't line up with other's posts. I need to lash valves as well since I haven't done that in about a year - I could always do that before trying to get timing "perfect".

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Couple of questions. What year/type vehicle? Is engine stock? Why 91 octane? Does the centrifugal advance in the distributer work (with the vacuum disconnected does the timing increase as the engine rpm increases)?
 
Vacuum- you need to be tapped into a manifold vacuum source. From what I recall you turn the distributor to the highest vacuum reading then back off one in hg and lock the distributor down. If you have no reading at all you may be in a ported vac tap port.
- Timing light- you need to be on the number 1 spark plug wire and also if the mark slid on the harmonic balancer you may be off lining up the marks.

Id use the timing light and a vac guage at the same time to determine whats goin on...
 
Your post says all checks without vacuum and doesn't say what rpm. A '64 distributor starts advancing at 560 rpm, with the check at 550. I'm guessing you have no tach or vacuum gauge.

Put away the timing light. Use your ear for rpm, connect the vacuum advance, turn the distributor to bring the rpm up, adjust the carb to bring the rpm down to where it doesn't jerk when you put it in gear or so low an rpm to stall when put in gear and lock it down. If it doesn't crank and start well and/or pings/rattles on hills, reduce initial a little until it works well all around. Back and forth distributor and idle speed adjustments.
 
I'll try to answer as much as I can. 64 dart, stock, 225CI, single barrel carb. I was told to use 91 instead of the "lead" additive to prevent knocking/pinging? If I remember right...

Yes, timing increases with engine RPM then stops advancing at a certain point.

Vacuum gauge is being hooked to a small port right on the intake for #6, part of the intake manifold.

Timing light is being hooked to #1 plug wire and yes, I did verify TDC as accurately as possible, the marks have not slipped.

Problem here is that I've already gotten a few different answers for how to "do it right" :p

@MV8's post makes sense, as I basically did what they said in the last 2 sentences, e.g. finding a sweet spot of higher RPM at idle, and not-so-hard cranking.
 
You are getting many answers as for "how to do it right". And they are not all completely correct, so I'll not confuse you any more. The only thing I will contribute is to skip the 91 octane, and stick with 87 octane. The only thing 91 oct will do is lighten your wallet. A stock slant six will only have a CR of approx 8-1. With 91 oct, you would probably never get it to ping, if you could get it started. The octane rating of the fuel has nothing to do with the lack of lead. Lead was added to gasoline back in the "old" days to increase the octane rating, but a stock slant six does not need any octane improvers. Now you can listen to many varying "cures" for your problem.
 
I am wondering if the centri advance mech inside the dist is 'frozen' from rust/gunk. It should provide timing advance as rpms increase, but would not do this if frozen up. Could explain why performance is better with more initial [ static ] timing.
 
Bewy said:
I am wondering if the centri advance mech inside the dist is 'frozen' from rust/gunk. It should provide timing advance as rpms increase, but would not do this if frozen up. Could explain why performance is better with more initial [ static ] timing.
Click to expand...
That was my question in post#2
 
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