To spray or not to spray

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7

7DUSTER3

1973 Plymouth Duster 360
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Hey guys, A family friend mentioned to me today that he has a complete nitrous setup that he would hold for me if i wanted it. How bad is it to run nitrous? I have a built 360 around 400 hp. How much hp would i gain from it.??? This idea would be for further down the road but i dont want to pass up on a sweet deal. It would never see use on the street only at the track.

7DUSTER3
 
I personally will never use it,seen enough nitrous explosions/fires at the track to stay away from it!!!...besides if you build/have a real motor you don't need it!!...
 
Ran it for years in the stone ages of juice units... 78-85 Foggers were just coming out.

Miller, Lazar, you name it we had. NEVER smoked an engine... EVER.

You can hit most engines with a 100-150 shot pretty easy. Just make sure you have an adequate fuel delivery system and talk or have someone knowledgable assist in set up. Rich is just as bad as lean in most cases.
 
Spray it. All the people that tell you to build a real motor, have too much money, or are ignorant in the use or set up of it. HP is HP no matter how you get it. I spray'd in my last combo, and will in a lot of future ones too.
 
All the people that tell you to build a real motor, have too much money, or are ignorant in the use or set up of.
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No we just have enough sense to stay away from it!!!..and its so much more fun when you blow the doors off someone running it ,with my n.a. engine!!!
 
I ran nitrous in the early 80's when it just starting out and decided it wasn't worth it. It seemed like everytime I need it the bottle was low or empty. It made me feel like a dork when someone would ask to race and I would have to say "I can't my bottle is empty". That is when I decide not to run the stuff and build N/A motors only so someone else could be the guy that says "I can't my bottles empty".


Chuck
 
That's why you always carry full spares in another car... :thumrigh:

Everybody has the opportunity to build what they want, how they want... I'll take my little SB with the "little blue bottle performance package" and go run.

Juice now, is light years ahead of where it was in the 80's.
 
You might also want to check your local laws cuz I know in MD if you get pulled over and the bottle is hooked up they take your car never for you to see it again it then become government property. But you can have it if it is not hooked up (for track use only) also if you get caught racing with it hooked up you automaticly loose your licence and you can get a very big jail sentince for it (yes with jail time)
 
340srule said:
They also have mega sponsers paying, so when they blow they just replace everything something the regular guy can't do...
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Thats exactly my thinking.Personally I wont spray.My long term pocket book can afford to do the engine once every 10 years or so.

Nitrous doesnt allow for that kind of longevity.It's very punishing to an engine.

And my chevie pal had a nice little 396 Nova on nos,until it went bang 3/4 of the way down the track.Flipped and rolled.Only thing that saved him was the roll cage.So no nos for me!
 
I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but the guys that are so against it, have you ever used it? Have you taken the right steps to make it right? Telling somebody it's a bad idea and having no supporting facts is ignorance.
Yes, you can run out of bottle, that's a duh. So have several, or run N/A and bump the timing when you are out, or must make sure if your going out to "run 'em" that it's full.
Solenoids, fuel pumps, and general knowledge HAS to be light years ahead of the 80's, I assume 'cause I was born in '82, so there is no comparo IMO. We're not comparing high performance anything from the 80's to now, this should be no different.
For what it's worth, I don't care if it's "Not your thing" at all. Telling somebody it's "bad news" or "hard on your engine" without any experience with it, is stupid and ignorant.

For the comment of the "Mega Sponsors" I also don't see 800 cubic inch motors on the street either, probably has something to do with those sponsors as well. Not to mention the fact those Pro Mod guys are sporting at LEAST a 600 hit of spray, closer to 800 hit, which I'm willing is more than what your engine is putting out by itself.

So cliff notes are: If you don't like it fine. If your telling somebody not to use it based on your opinion and no facts, shut up and quit limiting people that want to go fast.
 
QuarterHorse said:
I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but the guys that are so against it, have you ever used it? Have you taken the right steps to make it right? Telling somebody it's a bad idea and having no supporting facts is ignorance.
Yes, you can run out of bottle, that's a duh. So have several, or run N/A and bump the timing when you are out, or must make sure if your going out to "run 'em" that it's full.
Solenoids, fuel pumps, and general knowledge HAS to be light years ahead of the 80's, I assume 'cause I was born in '82, so there is no comparo IMO. We're not comparing high performance anything from the 80's to now, this should be no different.
For what it's worth, I don't care if it's "Not your thing" at all. Telling somebody it's "bad news" or "hard on your engine" without any experience with it, is stupid and ignorant.

For the comment of the "Mega Sponsors" I also don't see 800 cubic inch motors on the street either, probably has something to do with those sponsors as well. Not to mention the fact those Pro Mod guys are sporting at LEAST a 600 hit of spray, closer to 800 hit, which I'm willing is more than what your engine is putting out by itself.

So cliff notes are: If you don't like it fine. If your telling somebody not to use it based on your opinion and no facts, shut up and quit limiting people that want to go fast.
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Shut up!!! the original question was should he spray or not..I say NOT to spray,and yes i have used it,on a chevy i owned back when i had a weak moment,and brand x er's are where it should be used,of coarse i don't have any need for it i own a "REAL" ENGINE...
 
A nitrous kit that is rated at 125hp in the 80's is the same performance level as a 125hp kit in '07, 125hp is 125hp. Bottles cost money and so does filling them. You really need at least three bottles, two that you use while one is always being filled. I did not like the fact that you are always having to pay for your 125hp. If you build your motor with the additional 125hp up front then the cost is only up front and you don't have to keep paying for it. People like different things so they build their stuff in different ways which is great. The question was asked and I stated facts about the subject and my personal experiences about using it since I have run both nitrous and N/A motors. Nitrous has it's place in the performance world for many reasons. The main reason though is some people don't have the knowledge (which is OK) to build a high HP N/A motor themselves so they can get the same performance level with just a bolt on item. In essence it helps the guy with less engine knowhow level the playing field with the guy with a lot of engine knowhow, well at least until his bottle runs dry.


Chuck
 
Couldn't have said it any better there QH. There is nothing wrong with nitrous and it WILL NOT hurt your motor if you know what you are doing and have the fuel system to support it. Like Crackedback said.....pretty much any motor out there will handle a 100-150 shot with no problems at all and a 100 shot takes my 13.0 down to 11.85 with pump gas. No problems with my motor. Just make sure you don't run lean and pull the timing out and it will be fine. Yes I have ran out of bottle and yes it is kinda embarrassing but what's life with out some embarrassment.

If you don't like using it....FINE no problems but don't go around telling people they will blow their motor if they run it especially if YOU have never used it. I was really nervous about spraying the first time but now I'm hooked and I will build the next motor to handle an even bigger shot. It's nice having a nice docile street motor while cruising around and then with a little bit of drugs it's an animal.
 
Nitrous does have it's place, just like I said. Puts power in the hands of the people who's pockets aren't deep enough to run as fast as they want. It's a cheaper way to help get them there.

Bottles are not the same, as they have better flowing nozzels. The solenoids are no where NEAR the same from what I've seen. High HP pump gas set ups can't be had without power adders, nitrous being the best IMO to run on pump gas, as it cools down the intake as well as bumping the HP.
I guarantee you your 125HP baby rating from 1985 doesn't put down the same power to the ground as the one in '07. Things have changed. My last car picked up 194 rwhp on a 200 hp baby "shot".
I also had almost 20K miles on a little 'ole 306 with that 200 hit on it, no issues.
It's all in the tune, just like anything. High compression N/A, blower, turbo, or nitrous.

340'srule - you sound so ignorant telling somebody to "shut up" on a public forum. Grow up, take your pocket change and go buy some manners, and pick up some set up books so your not so ignorant on the subject. BTW- What's that "real engine" gain you for ET anyway?
 
125hp is 125hp period, but the HP gain will closer to 125hp on a smaller motor than a larger one. I was using the stuff in 1982 when you were born so I guess you could say we have something in common, my Buick was on the bottle and so were you, LOL.

I never claimed it was bad for a motor and like any power adder you need ancillary items to support the added HP.




Chuck
 
340mopar said:
125hp is 125hp period, but the HP gain will closer to 125hp on a smaller motor than a larger one. I was using the stuff in 1982 when you were born so I guess you could say we have something in common, my Buick was on the bottle and so were you, LOL.

I never claimed it was bad for a motor and like any power adder you need ancillary items to support the added HP.




Chuck
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Haha yeah, I wasn't trying to be "smart" at all. I know what your saying, some people have that mentality of it being bad with no experience. My comments weren't directed towards anybody except the last one, unless they fit the shoes you wear. :D

Like I was saying though, the solenoids and nozzels on the bottle flow so much better now than the old "skinny" NOS bottles with those baby solenoids it's not funny. I also "timed" my jets out in a bucket to make sure they were flowing what they read per Nitrous Express' directions when I called 'em. The tech guys these company's have now are great, and nitrous is 100% safe to use, I wouldn't worry about "blowing it up" for spraying.
 
as with anything, You either love it or you hate it. I have seen harm and I have seen em live forever. The harm I have seen usually comes from people having no idea what their doing and just bolting it on and going. Or the huge hits on the high dollar pro's. I tend to agree with the guys that say spray it so my vote is
ITS your car spray it if you want to but remember to take the advice from knowlegable people who HAVE used it and know how to tune it. Not from the ricer on the corner who says hit it with the 250 shot and go.

Ron
 
I've never used nitrous or been around when somebody was using it, and I have a question. What happens when your bottle runs dry during a run? Are you still feeding the fuel, with no nitrous to support it? Does the engine just sort of load up or foul out because of excess fuel? Or is there some type of pressure switch on the bottle that shuts off the fuel solenoid when the bottle runs out?
 
QuarterHorse said:
Nitrous does have it's place, just like I said. Puts power in the hands of the people who's pockets aren't deep enough to run as fast as they want. It's a cheaper way to help get them there.

Bottles are not the same, as they have better flowing nozzels. The solenoids are no where NEAR the same from what I've seen. High HP pump gas set ups can't be had without power adders, nitrous being the best IMO to run on pump gas, as it cools down the intake as well as bumping the HP.
I guarantee you your 125HP baby rating from 1985 doesn't put down the same power to the ground as the one in '07. Things have changed. My last car picked up 194 rwhp on a 200 hp baby "shot".
I also had almost 20K miles on a little 'ole 306 with that 200 hit on it, no issues.
It's all in the tune, just like anything. High compression N/A, blower, turbo, or nitrous.

340'srule - you sound so ignorant telling somebody to "shut up" on a public forum. Grow up, take your pocket change and go buy some manners, and pick up some set up books so your not so ignorant on the subject. BTW- What's that "real engine" gain you for ET anyway?
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Go back and read your previous reply,i was',nt telling anyone to shut up i was quoting you!! by the way keep spraying,but be sure to post pictures of the damage it does when a solenoid hangs open:laughing::laughing:
 
340srule said:
Go back and read your previous reply,i was',nt telling anyone to shut up i was quoting you!! by the way keep spraying,but be sure to post pictures of the damage it does when a solenoid hangs open:laughing::laughing:
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Will do, hold your breath on those photos too.
 
'64 Cuda said:
I've never used nitrous or been around when somebody was using it, and I have a question. What happens when your bottle runs dry during a run? Are you still feeding the fuel, with no nitrous to support it? Does the engine just sort of load up or foul out because of excess fuel? Or is there some type of pressure switch on the bottle that shuts off the fuel solenoid when the bottle runs out?
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The old system I used just kept feeding fuel to the motor which ended up in an over rich condition and fell on it's face. Like anything you get use to how it feels when everything is working right or not. I could feel it start to nose over so I knew I was running out of nitrous so I would shut off the system. The worst condition is if it goes lean because of a fuel delivery problem. You can also feel this also because just before you start eating parts it really starts pulling, better be quick killing the system if you want to save parts. They do have available low pressure (both fuel and nitrous) switches that will kill the system if the pressures drop below set pressures.


Chuck
 
I used a plate system on my '67 A body 440 race car. It was a 10.58 car on motor, 9.90 on spray. Never had any nitrous related problems.
I also had a plate system on a '55 F-100 with a Chevy 355 small block. It was a blast on the street. There were no nitrous problems with it either, but I did have full open throttle position switch and an RPM switch wired in series so the spray could not energize if the carb secondaries were not wide open and the RPM was not at least 2000.
 
The biggest problem with spray is, it is addictive. You start with a 100 hp shot. Then go to a 150, then 200, etc. It is so easy to go quicker, you will wind up hurting the motor, if you don't restrain yourself. I have a fogger system on my 170 cid slant six. Up to 150 hp (which is like 388 hp on a 440, hp per cube) had no problems. Ran over 400 lbs through the engine, before a rebuild. Tried more compression, bigger cam, and 175 hp jets, and ate 3 pistons on the 5th pass. I should have cut back on the nitrous, untill I got the new combo tuned in.
 
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