Today, dollar for dollar, is the 318 faster than the 340 ???

[fishmens67]

383 2bbl motors can be bought on the cheap..... 383 is a real bang for the buck. Unfortunately, in the mopar community, they fall in the same category as 318's...

Funny how that works, and the 360's were considered junk back in the day.
old school guy's still remember the 383 Roadrunner package, 68 being the best one.

 

[273]

383 2bbl motors can be bought on the cheap..... 383 is a real bang for the buck. Unfortunately, in the mopar community, they fall in the same category as 318's...

If an aftermarket company came out with a heavy duty small block with a standard 4.25” bore everyone would be loving it, we basically have one and everyone thinks it’s a boat anchor.

 

[273]

Lighten up, Francis. I’m not sure what your argument is and why you need to make it personal?

The 340/360 engines have a 4” bore while the 318 does not. That's a fact. I don't know about you but when building an engine and am given a choice between two blocks with the same external dimensions but one has a larger bore, I’m taking the larger bore EVERY time. Going by physics alone, the larger bore will always make more power because there is more up-swept volume and more volume translates to more air/fuel which = more power. Maybe you wouldn't make the same choice? If not, tell me why.

Also, I'm not sure but are you saying you have personally built NHRA Stock Eliminator 318 combos that held records? if so, please school me because I am forever fascinated by what class racers can do with marginal combos. What chassis in what class? How far under did you go, what elevation, temps. etc.

If you actually have been through that process (I have not myself but know some people that have) then I'm sure you would know it's an uphill battle and that a $3,000 budget wouldn't even be a drop in that bucket. Apologies if I did not interpret that correctly.

However, if you are using the Stock Eliminator angle to cite an example, its not really a valid point because class racing combos are highly specialized pieces. The same would hold true whether we're discussing a 318 in a '77 Volare wagon, an '82 4 cylinder Turbo Mustang or even a FWD Toranado.

Again, unless I'm missing something, the original point of this discussion was whether it's worth it to buy and build a 318 if your budget is $3,000. I say no. The other part of the question was whether or not a 340 is "better", to which I answer yes, every time, for the reasons I stated already.

I believe the reason this discussion has become relevant now is because it's not 1979, it's 2021. 40 years ago, 318s were left for dead because no one cared to bother with them. Going by what people have said for decades, presumably you could just make your way over to the local junkyard and pluck a 340 out of a '74 Road Runner for $50. Whether that was true back then or not I don't know but for sure it ain't happening now!

Standard bore 340s are obviously pretty scarce these days and rightfully command a high price when available. It makes sense, that's just basic supply and demand. Even the "resto" blocks that Mopar was casting 25 years ago are worth their weight in gold now if you can even find one.

But since finding a '74 Road Runner in a local junkyard that retains it's original 340 is not a realistic possibility anymore, people are probably looking at the crusty 318 they have sitting in the shed wondering what could be done to it to make it more fun (because it sucks in stock form). Problem is, no one wants to spend money on this idea because the fact is, it does not add up financially, especially when the cost of machine work is involved. Lipstick on a pig and all that.

Even if you think the supply of LA 360s is drying up, there are millions of 5.9 Magnum engines out there that would be a better candidate for a first-time or budget build over an old LA 318. Even if you're a bucks-down kid just starting out in the hobby, I'd still say to find a 360 or a 5.9 Magnum to start for the reasons I've already stated. It's not an emotional argument, it's economics based on facts and reason.

So without calling me names, telling me I don't know what I'm talking about or skirting around those pesky engine architecture facts, please explain to me why it's worth spending any money on a 318. Change my mind, I'm all ears.

My guess 66fs likes where the powerband falls in 273 at the power level he does over where a 360 would.

 

[318willrun]

5.3 LS has a 3.78 bore...... and like them or hate them, enough of them have run some very fast times......

 

[fishmens67]

If an aftermarket company came out with a heavy duty small block with a standard 4.25” bore everyone would be loving it, we basically have one and everyone thinks it’s a boat anchor.

Everyone ? It's mostly the guy's clinging to the 340's and 360's not guy's from back way when.
stroker kits have really changed the game, the recipes are so much easier.

 

[318willrun]

Everyone ? It's mostly the guy's clinging to the 340's and 360's not guy's from back way when.
stroker kits have really changed the game, the recipes are so much easier.

In my opinion, before a variety of affordable aluminum heads, affordable stroker kits, ebay turbo's and everyone packing credit cards, racing was more fun. To me even more pure. I remember when a mid 13 second true street car was respected. I remember the '87 GN was a hot rod off the lot... and ran a 14.9 from the lot. Now, 8 second street cars travel on drag week pulling trailers. They have no more fun, it's just the bar of competition has changed. Fast is only fast when compared to what others are doing in the same class of sport.

 

[fishmens67]

In my opinion, before a variety of affordable aluminum heads, affordable stroker kits, ebay turbo's and everyone packing credit cards, racing was more fun. To me even more pure. I remember when a mid 13 second true street car was respected. I remember the '87 GN was a hot rod off the lot... and ran a 14.9 from the lot. Now, 8 second street cars travel on drag week pulling trailers. They have no more fun, it's just the bar of competition has changed. Fast is only fast when compared to what others are doing in the same class of sport.

LOL a wallet and no idea what the builder built them. lol They just say, give me 500 hp and put a 408 sticker on the air cleaner.

 

[ir3333]

the original post has long been lost and it has gone (like always) to nothing matters but " the quarter mile "

 

[318willrun]

LOL a wallet and no idea what the builder built them. lol They just say, give me 500 hp and put a 408 sticker on the air cleaner.

Now days you get to pick your horsepower fully assembled motor from a magazine.

 

[fishmens67]

the original post has long been lost and it has gone (like always) to nothing matters but " the quarter mile "

I think that's where it gets lost, everyone thinks they're a drag racer, but in reality the 500 horse 408 sits idle in the parking lot at the car show. I've had some pretty radical engines over the years, but I think a 5.2 would be just the ticket if I was building a street cruiser again. no rattling windows and a stereo I could hear.

 

[rmchrgr]

383 2bbl motors can be bought on the cheap..... 383 is a real bang for the buck. Unfortunately, in the mopar community, they fall in the same category as 318's...

I have a basically stock 383 in my '68 Coronet. It's the original 1968 model year short block with the pistons slightly above deck. Has 'cleaned up" 452 heads now with nice M.P. valves, a "Road Runner" 268 cam, basic headers and an Edelbrock Performer on it. Runs decent but it's just kinda OK, not setting any records with it. Even with a stick and 3.23 Sure Grip its nothing to write home about though it's more fun that it was with the 727. The Gen III Hemi in my Ram is a better engine with less cubes in a much heavier vehicle.

At some point, the 383 is coming out for one of the three 400s I have waiting in the wings. Thinking 470" or more. Same external dimensions as the 383 but has the largest bore of any big block... sound familiar? I'll keep the 383 Magnum pie tin on it though, just for fun.

In my opinion, before a variety of affordable aluminum heads, affordable stroker kits, ebay turbo's and everyone packing credit cards, racing was more fun. To me even more pure. I remember when a mid 13 second true street car was respected. I remember the '87 GN was a hot rod off the lot... and ran a 14.9 from the lot. Now, 8 second street cars travel on drag week pulling trailers. They have no more fun, it's just the bar of competition has changed. Fast is only fast when compared to what others are doing in the same class of sport.

Time marches on.

It's probably similar to the old hot rod guys back in the '40s and '50s who built up Flathead Fords or Olds Rocket motors and such. Imagine what they must have felt when the "youth market" muscle cars came around and made real performance accessible to the masses? Late '50s-early '60s the Big Three made it possible for anyone to walk into a dealer and drive home with a 400+ hp car without turning a wrench. Must have been eye opening.

Just be thankful we're not arguing about battery upgrades for electric weenie mobiles!

 

[fishmens67]

I have a basically stock 383 in my '68 Coronet. It's the original 1968 model year short block with the pistons slightly above deck. Has 'cleaned up" 452 heads now with nice M.P. valves, a "Road Runner" 268 cam, basic headers and an Edelbrock Performer on it. Runs decent but it's just kinda OK, not setting any records with it. Even with a stick and 3.23 Sure Grip its nothing to write home about though it's more fun that it was with the 727. The Gen III Hemi in my Ram is a better engine with less cubes in a much heavier vehicle.

At some point, the 383 is coming out for one of the three 400s I have waiting in the wings. Thinking 470" or more. Same external dimensions as the 383 but has the largest bore of any big block... sound familiar? I'll keep the 383 Magnum pie tin on it though, just for fun.



Time marches on.

It's probably similar to the old hot rod guys back in the '40s and '50s who built up Flathead Fords or Olds Rocket motors and such. Imagine what they must have felt when the "youth market" muscle cars came around and made real performance accessible to the masses? Late '50s-early '60s the Big Three made it possible for anyone to walk into a dealer and drive home with a 400+ hp car without turning a wrench. Must have been eye opening.

Just be thankful we're not arguing about battery upgrades for electric weenie mobiles!

it's all in the combo, you missed one key ingredient in your 383, a set of ported 915 heads. lol
I never built a 383 with an open chamber smog head, 383 responds well to quench.
I've built them so close the valves would almost tap the piston. lol

 

[RustyRatRod]

You know I'm not a 318 hater. ....but you kinda hanged yourself with the way you asked the question. "Dollar for dollar". ....and dollar for dollar a 318 will never produce the power a 340 will. No how, no way.

 

[rmchrgr]

it's all in the combo, you missed one key ingredient in your 383, a set of ported 915 heads. lol
I never built a 383 with an open chamber smog head, 383 responds well to quench.
I've built them so close the valves would almost tap the piston. lol

I started porting another set of 452 heads I had, went a little bananas. I gave up when I realized there were 15 more ports to match. Yes, these will need a valve job, amongst other things!

Here are the pistons.

Like everyone with a 318, I didn't want to spend money on the 383. It's actually something that is driven all the time - cruise nights but also back and forth to the store, to work, ice cream with the kids etc. Guess it's fine for what it is but after a while you start to know the limitations of whatever is under your foot and then the wheels start turning.

I'm not about over-building stuff either. I am helping my friend build a 383-based 438" stroker for his Fury. On my advice we went very conservative with everything but it should make well over 400hp. It's plenty for him, he's never had that much power under his foot. Stroker is probably the only way I'd ever build another 383.

What were we discussing again, 318s or something?

 

[fishmens67]

I started porting another set of 452 heads I had, went a little bananas. I gave up when I realized there were 15 more ports to match. Yes, these will need a valve job, amongst other things!
View attachment 1715774418

Here are the pistons.
View attachment 1715774425

Like everyone with a 318, I didn't want to spend money on the 383. It's actually something that is driven all the time - cruise nights but also back and forth to the store, to work, ice cream with the kids etc. Guess it's fine for what it is but after a while you start to know the limitations of whatever is under your foot and then the wheels start turning.

I'm not about over-building stuff either. I am helping my friend build a 383-based 438" stroker for his Fury. On my advice we went very conservative with everything but it should make well over 400hp. It's plenty for him, he's never had that much power under his foot. Stroker is probably the only way I'd ever build another 383.
View attachment 1715774421

What were we discussing again, 318s or something?

 

[MrJLR]

Stroker is probably the only way I'd ever build another 383.

I feel that way about just about ANY engine build anymore.

Jeff

 

[318willrun]

You know I'm not a 318 hater. ....but you kinda hanged yourself with the way you asked the question. "Dollar for dollar". ....and dollar for dollar a 318 will never produce the power a 340 will. No how, no way.

on a 3k budget, neither one of us have an engine, and we both have to pay fair market value, I'll will get my 318 and build it and I bet I go faster than the 340 you paid 1500 bucks to get a core... you'll have 1500 to get it going, let alone any performance parts. I'll get one of these great free 318's around here on FABO and then I'll have 3k to spend on performance parts. I'll have aluminum heads, .030 pistons, a healthy cam, and your 340 is in a world of hurt

 

[fishmens67]

on a 3k budget, neither one of us have an engine, and we both have to pay fair market value, I'll will get my 318 and build it and I bet I go faster than the 340 you paid 1500 bucks to get a core... you'll have 1500 to get it going, let alone any performance parts. I'll get one of these great free 318's around here on FABO and then I'll have 3k to spend on performance parts. I'll have aluminum heads, .030 pistons, a healthy cam, and your 340 is in a world of hurt

There's no question in my mind, I already said I'd build the 318.

 

[fishmens67]

and spank the 340.

 

[RustyRatRod]

on a 3k budget, neither one of us have an engine, and we both have to pay fair market value, I'll will get my 318 and build it and I bet I go faster than the 340 you paid 1500 bucks to get a core... you'll have 1500 to get it going, let alone any performance parts. I'll get one of these great free 318's around here on FABO and then I'll have 3k to spend on performance parts. I'll have aluminum heads, .030 pistons, a healthy cam, and your 340 is in a world of hurt

Now hold on now. You're makin up rules as you go along. Who says we each didn't already have the engines layin around already? In that instance, dollar for dollar. The bigger motor will win.

 

[318willrun]

Now hold on now. You're makin up rules as you go along. Who says we each didn't already have the engines layin around already? In that instance, dollar for dollar. The bigger motor will win.

1st post... I even gave an example of a 340 for sale and have said, if you have to get a motor, is the 318 the better choice on a low budget to go fast

 

[RustyRatRod]

1st post... I even gave an example of a 340 for sale and have said, if you have to get a motor, is the 318 the better choice on a low budget to go fast

And I've never disagreed. But you're wrangling the rules to suit your question and that's not real world stuff.

 

[318willrun]

And I've never disagreed. But you're wrangling the rules to suit your question and that's not real world stuff.

lol.. never wrangled anything. It all stemmed from folks having a 318 and stating they have a limited budget, and some here tell them to buy a 340. After thinking about this, I decided that they won't go as fast if the pay market value for a 340 on their limited budget. So, as stated in the title, in todays world, is the 318 the faster engine vs 340 if a person has to buy the engine and build it on their limited budget, bet it 2500 or 3k or even 3500. I say the 318 will be the faster engine because of the price of the 340.

 

[RustyRatRod]

lol.. never wrangled anything. It all stemmed from folks having a 318 and stating they have a limited budget, and some here tell them to buy a 340. After thinking about this, I decided that they won't go as fast if the pay market value for a 340 on their limited budget. So, as stated in the title, in todays world, is the 318 the faster engine vs 340 if a person has to buy the engine and build it on their limited budget, bet it 2500 or 3k or even 3500. I say the 318 will be the faster engine because of the price of the 340.

In your limited constraints, perhaps. But what if I get a free 340? Or a 50 buck one? It happens. Does that mean I caint play? Wranglin. lol

 

[318willrun]

In your limited constraints, perhaps. But what if I get a free 340? Or a 50 buck one? It happens. Does that mean I caint play? Wranglin. lol

well, if somebody has a 340 for heaven's sake build it.... but the guy with the 318 being told to buy and build a 340 doesn't have one. lol