Trick flow

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rumblefish360 said:
Really? Um, LOL, OK.

300 cfm through a 1x2 port is less volume than a 300 cfm port at 2x4. That is twice the volume at the same cfm.:poke::realcrazy::rolleyes:
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The port size has zero to do with how much air an engine can move. Look how much extra the intake manifold adds to port size. It's about flow, not port size. Port size is just used for marketing purposes. Period. It's not the size anyway, it's the shape.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The port size has zero to do with how much air an engine can move. Look how much extra the intake manifold adds to port size. It's about flow, not port size. Port size is just used for marketing purposes. Period. It's not the size anyway, it's the shape.
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LMAO... Ok
 
rumblefish360 said:
Really? Um, LOL, OK.

300 cfm through a 1x2 port is less volume than a 300 cfm port at 2x4. That is twice the volume at the same cfm.:poke::realcrazy::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

they can't have different volumes at the same CFM. CFM is the volume measurement. I think you mean the volume doubles at the same velocity.
 
Port volume is a static measurement. It's the volume of the port. The flow rate (measured in cubic feet per minute) factors time into the equation. Port volume means nothing, it's a marketing tool.

Port A: Cross sectional area of a pencil that's 100 miles long. Port volume 9 billion cc's.
Port B: You can fit your fist in and it's 8" long. Port volume 200 cc's.
Guess which one flows more cfm.
 
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RustyRatRod said:
The port size has zero to do with how much air an engine can move. Look how much extra the intake manifold adds to port size. It's about flow, not port size. Port size is just used for marketing purposes. Period. It's not the size anyway, it's the shape.
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Totally missed the mark on this one RRR. Volume is huge when designing the engine and top end specifically. All engines have personalities, and the port volume has a lot to do with it. Power curves, peaks, shift recovery, pretty much everything is affected by the head’s port volume to one degree or another. It’s only marketing if you don’t understand what it represents.
 
moper said:
Totally missed the mark on this one RRR. Volume is huge when designing the engine and top end specifically. All engines have personalities, and the port volume has a lot to do with it. Power curves, peaks, shift recovery, pretty much everything is affected by the head’s port volume to one degree or another. It’s only marketing if you don’t understand what it represents.
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That's the way I understand it but I'm just a self-taught head porter. To make the perfect port would require filling the void (slow) area's and adding metal on the outside of the port so you have material to remove in the fast area's. Every-time I flow a head I check air speed throughout the port. Still testing and still learning. I used to keep a piece of paper and a pen on my nightstand at night and would sometimes wake-up and make a sketch of something that popped into my head so I didn't forget it. Now when I get a port the way I like it I take a "port mold' so I can take it in the house with me and look at the whole port in 3D.
 
Pascamp said:
Port volume is a static measurement. It's the volume of the port. The flow rate (measured in cubic feet per minute) factors time into the equation. Port volume means nothing, it's a marketing tool.

Port A: Cross sectional area of a pencil that's 100 miles long. Port volume 9 billion cc's.
Port B: You can fit your fist in and it's 8" long. Port volume 200 cc's.
Guess which one flows more cfm.
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If this is true, why do larger pipes flow more than smaller pipes at the same pressure ? Altho raising the air speed does contribute a bunch . More to it than meets the eye.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Really? Um, LOL, OK.

300 cfm through a 1x2 port is less volume than a 300 cfm port at 2x4. That is twice the volume at the same cfm.:poke::realcrazy::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Actually, 'cfm' is a measure of volume. 300 cubic feet per minute of airflow is a set amount of volume in a set amount of time.
The airflow speed to get 300 cfm through a 1x2 port (2 square inches of area) would have to be much greater than the airflow speed to get the same amount of volume through a 2x4 port (8 square inches of area).
 
famous bob said:
If this is true, why do larger pipes flow more than smaller pipes at the same pressure ? Altho raising the air speed does contribute a bunch . More to it than meets the eye.
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Larger as in cross sectional area...yes. Larger as in length...no. CSA and length both play a part in volume. Velocity, turbulence, frictional loss, and other variables factor into flow rate also. Head port volume means nothing. Everything out to the atmosphere must also be factored into volumetric equations (head, intake, spacers, carb, air cleaner, ect). The only direct effect volume has is reaction time to vacuum changes.
 
moper said:
Totally missed the mark on this one RRR. Volume is huge when designing the engine and top end specifically. All engines have personalities, and the port volume has a lot to do with it. Power curves, peaks, shift recovery, pretty much everything is affected by the head’s port volume to one degree or another. It’s only marketing if you don’t understand what it represents.
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Maybe I don't. Then tell me this. You have two ports same shape and size except length. One is 2" long one is 4" long. Everything in the heads is the same, valves, bowls, chambers, yada, yada......then tell me, how the port size makes a difference in what the head FLOWS.
 
I think it's easier to understand the relationship between flow and volume is to look at a pcar head and a W-2 head.

You can work your guts out on a pcar head and get 260-265 CFM. A W-2 with a decent valve job will wake that CFM but be 70-80 HP better. It's a volume issue.

All these big inch small blocks are severely under headed as far as volume goes.
 
yellow rose said:
I think it's easier to understand the relationship between flow and volume is to look at a pcar head and a W-2 head.

You can work your guts out on a pcar head and get 260-265 CFM. A W-2 with a decent valve job will wake that CFM but be 70-80 HP better. It's a volume issue.

All these big inch small blocks are severely under headed as far as volume goes.
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not arguing here, but I both of u are right to certain extent . port flow is greater on a bigger port, depending on the air speed. little air speed can kill a big port. Remember how sick 460 fords were, they had huge ports but didn`t run worth a crap.
 
B3RE said:
Yes, BUT, buy Edelbrocks and fill them with Ferrea valves and PAC springs, and then pay someone to port them to 300 cfm. It sounds like a lot up front, but to get another head to that level would cost more in the end.
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I was just answering the question of "How Much" , big fan of yours and a customer of the guy who posted below your response , I have a notebook full of measurements for you just been too busy with work to get on the phone with ya and get my kit ordered , being on the west coast makes it more difficult to find time during your day with it ending before I get home from mine but I will get it done eventually lol . I wonder how the geometry will work on these ? do you think they have adjusted the pedestals any ?
 
cannucky said:
I was just answering the question of "How Much" , big fan of yours and a customer of the guy who posted below your response , I have a notebook full of measurements for you just been too busy with work to get on the phone with ya and get my kit ordered , being on the west coast makes it more difficult to find time during your day with it ending before I get home from mine but I will get it done eventually lol . I wonder how the geometry will work on these ? do you think they have adjusted the pedestals any ?
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I wasn't trying to beat you up. I just hear complaints about cost on occasion, and wanted to point out what it would take to get a different head on par with the Trick Flows.

If they follow the precedent they set with the big block heads, the stands will be moved. Unfortunately, they didn't go up far enough to get closer to where they needed to be, and they didn't offset the stand at all. That's why most rockers don't fit them very well. I tried to get it changed for the 270 heads, but no dice. Hopefully, they get it right on the small block heads.

Just send me an email, and I'll arrange a time to call that works for both of us. I'm easy, lol.
 
TF does a twisted wedge, maybe for a Magnum valve train one day...
 
pishta said:
TF does a twisted wedge, maybe for a Magnum valve train one day...
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At the rate Mopar stuff is made, it will be when we are all old and grey. Or dead.
 
RustyRatRod said:
At the rate Mopar stuff is made, it will be when we are all old and grey. Or dead.
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Not really. Trick Flow just recently jumped into the Mopar arena and now have two big block heads, an intake, and now small block heads. They produce great products and treat the racers well. Don't knock them till you give them a chance. Unlike Indy they treat their customers with respect.
 
LMAO @ pittsburghracer

From what you hear about Indy.....
Ooooooooooooooo boy!
 
pittsburghracer said:
Not really. Trick Flow just recently jumped into the Mopar arena and now have two big block heads, an intake, and now small block heads. They produce great products and treat the racers well. Don't knock them till you give them a chance. Unlike Indy they treat their customers with respect.
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I am real familiar with Trick Flo as I have a LOT of Mustang friends. Been buildin engines and helpin people tune with their heads a very long time. I stand by my statement. Were Trick Flo really interested in the Mopar crowd, they would not have ignored us for some thirty plus years.
 
last I heard was that Mopar was the 'Apple' in the home computer ios arena, 10% market share. No one wants to write a virus for the 10%...er sink millions into R&D for a 10% base...well see.
 
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