TTI headers

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go-fish said:
You're being the turd in a punch bowl here, LEO. Coming off as a complete dick.

How many times have we read the "experts" say that if you're going to post a question give as much info as possible. I agree and there should be a template. Cubic inches, Cam, convertor, gearing, tire height, .......
The info can be tailored to the specific question but putting more info that necessary might not hurt.
I, in no way, shape, or form got that his post sounds like an advertisement. I think a cam would be one of the factors on header purchase. Do you think a 224/224 duration cam warrants the extra expense of 1-7/8" headers? I don't. But can't trust me, I didn't work in the automotive industry for 40 years and I'm not as old as you are.
To the OP, sorry you got "the business" from a member of "the mean girls club" on here. Thank you for providing the cam specs. After talking with Brian at IMM and doing a ton of reading on my own, with your cam specs and the use of TF 190's, I would definitely go with 1-7/8" headers. 2" headers would be wasting money and adding more of a fitment headache with your head and cam combo.
The TTi step header is more of a replacement header, ie. replacing manifolds. If you are building an engine for serious performance like you are then my expert tells me 1-7/8" all the way. IMM has dynoed a lot of engines and they use 1-7/8'' and recommend them. So, don't trust me. I'm just an enthusiast. I think there is enough consensus here saying go 1-7/8".
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I agree with Brian 100%.
 
It's all in my rear view mirror, Mike. He spoke his mind, and that's that. I am appreciative of all the positive information I've gained here by knowledgeable members. I'm looking at the Tubular Automotive and the TTI 1 7/8's primaries. No sense leaving free power on the table to save a few dollars. FWIW, my TF 190's are in the machine shop now, so they can give them the once over. They also want to run them on their flow bench, which I agreed to. The engine will be dyno'd for true HP/TQ numbers. Still waiting for my TF single plane intake, and my Voodoo solid roller cam. Due to Camaro-19, there seems to be a shortage of cam blanks. I'm getting old and have some medical issues, so this might be my last major build, and I want to do it right the first time. After the engine is done, I'll ask incessant question about how to get the power to the pavement! I've benn an off road guy for 25 years, and it's taking me some time to get back into my SBM Swinger. I've already learned about the SBP 15" wheels.
 
70dart340 said:
It's all in my rear view mirror, Mike. He spoke his mind, and that's that. I am appreciative of all the positive information I've gained here by knowledgeable members. I'm looking at the Tubular Automotive and the TTI 1 7/8's primaries. No sense leaving free power on the table to save a few dollars. FWIW, my TF 190's are in the machine shop now, so they can give them the once over. They also want to run them on their flow bench, which I agreed to. The engine will be dyno'd for true HP/TQ numbers. Still waiting for my TF single plane intake, and my Voodoo solid roller cam. Due to Camaro-19, there seems to be a shortage of cam blanks. I'm getting old and have some medical issues, so this might be my last major build, and I want to do it right the first time. After the engine is done, I'll ask incessant question about how to get the power to the pavement! I've benn an off road guy for 25 years, and it's taking me some time to get back into my SBM Swinger. I've already learned about the SBP 15" wheels.
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Just my opinion, keeping in mind I’ve only seen pictures of the TA headers and that most likely the first set I see will be for a Pontiac but I won’t use TTI again.

I detest their collectors. They don’t make (AFAIK) any header that uses a slip on collectors. That sucks. They also run all the tubes above the steering linkage. At least on the 1.625-1.750 small block headers anyway. And, they point the collectors in towards the centerline of the car.

What all that means is that once the headers are on the car it a giant PITA to work on anything under the car. To get the transmission out you either have to loosen up the headers, which then fall down in the way and you have to jury rig them half assed out of the way, or you have wrestle the transmission around to get one side higher than the other to get past the header.

I’ve been putting on and working on cars with headers since 1980. And those TTI’s are pretty miserable to work with nice they are on the car. The very first set I bought were 5204 Hookers for a 318. They are 1.750 headers, and every whiz bang in gym shorts said they were too big.

They weren’t and that little 318 made a lot of money on the street.

I’d much rather have a header that takes more effort to install that is easier to work on in the car than the other way around. The 5303 Hooker is the perfect example of a 1.875 header that is pretty miserable to install, especially the first time you do it, and it’s even worse if you don’t have the installation instructions. They only go on one way. There aren’t other options. I know. I have tried ways that I thought would be quicker but like normal, I was wrong and wasted a ton of time.

Once they are on, it’s a piece of cake to get to the plugs (the TTI’s have really good access to the plugs as well...that TTI did very well) and working under the car you can get to things without smashing your hands to get through some small space.

Just my observations and opinion.
 
yellow rose said:
Just my opinion, keeping in mind I’ve only seen pictures of the TA headers and that most likely the first set I see will be for a Pontiac but I won’t use TTI again.

I detest their collectors. They don’t make (AFAIK) any header that uses a slip on collectors. That sucks. They also run all the tubes above the steering linkage. At least on the 1.625-1.750 small block headers anyway. And, they point the collectors in towards the centerline of the car.

What all that means is that once the headers are on the car it a giant PITA to work on anything under the car. To get the transmission out you either have to loosen up the headers, which then fall down in the way and you have to jury rig them half assed out of the way, or you have wrestle the transmission around to get one side higher than the other to get past the header.

I’ve been putting on and working on cars with headers since 1980. And those TTI’s are pretty miserable to work with nice they are on the car. The very first set I bought were 5204 Hookers for a 318. They are 1.750 headers, and every whiz bang in gym shorts said they were too big.

They weren’t and that little 318 made a lot of money on the street.

I’d much rather have a header that takes more effort to install that is easier to work on in the car than the other way around. The 5303 Hooker is the perfect example of a 1.875 header that is pretty miserable to install, especially the first time you do it, and it’s even worse if you don’t have the installation instructions. They only go on one way. There aren’t other options. I know. I have tried ways that I thought would be quicker but like normal, I was wrong and wasted a ton of time.

Once they are on, it’s a piece of cake to get to the plugs (the TTI’s have really good access to the plugs as well...that TTI did very well) and working under the car you can get to things without smashing your hands to get through some small space.

Just my observations and opinion.
Click to expand...
I agree with your assessment of the headers as i have a couple cars with the TTI's and a car with a custom built set, but I do feel there is too much emphasis being put on header size, and granted the larger ones will probably make more peak power but when it's all said and done I firmly believe that it's the torque converter that's the most important piece on a street/strip car or even straight drag car, it's the most overlooked and is the main factor in why some guys combo's run impressive ET's and other's similiar combo's just leave them puzzled and scratching their heads.
 
'68cuda416 said:
I agree with your assessment of the headers as i have a couple cars with the TTI's and a car with a custom built set, but I do feel there is too much emphasis being put on header size, and granted the larger ones will probably make more peak power but when it's all said and done I firmly believe that it's the torque converter that's the most important piece on a street/strip car or even straight drag car, it's the most overlooked and is the main factor in why some guys combo's run impressive ET's and other's similiar combo's just leave them puzzled and scratching their heads.
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When my dyno is up and running (hopefully in a month or so) we will be testing header sizes. Since I’ve already done a bunch of it I’m 99% sure of the outcome. Spoiler alert...I’ve never seen a good set of big headers lose power anywhere.

If you watch Engine Masters you can go back and look at any of the small block mopar tests they have done. Every one of them has been tested with Hooker 5303 headers. That’s a 1 7/8 primary tube. They may still have the 3 inch collectors on them, but I use 3.5 inch collectors because I run mufflers.
 
yellow rose said:
When my dyno is up and running (hopefully in a month or so) we will be testing header sizes. Since I’ve already done a bunch of it I’m 99% sure of the outcome. Spoiler alert...I’ve never seen a good set of big headers lose power anywhere.

If you watch Engine Masters you can go back and look at any of the small block mopar tests they have done. Every one of them has been tested with Hooker 5303 headers. That’s a 1 7/8 primary tube. They may still have the 3 inch collectors on them, but I use 3.5 inch collectors because I run mufflers.
Click to expand...
I would be willing to bet money if the test could be legitimately done on the O.P.'s car that it would ET better with a custom to his package converter versus most people's guesses on a converter versus the set of 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 step to 1 7/8 big tube header. Basically all i'm saying is that I agree with you on the header deal but the far bigger gain over header sizing will be in the correct converter for his application.
 
yellow rose said:
I’ve never seen a good set of big headers lose power anywhere.
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I pretty much agree.
I have seen a minor drop in torque on low powered 318’s. Since there low powered, we’ll call it a mundane street driver.

Also engine masters normally runs a 360 or a 408 size engine. A bigger header in those engines performance range should be a home run.
 
yellow rose said:
Just my opinion, keeping in mind I’ve only seen pictures of the TA headers and that most likely the first set I see will be for a Pontiac but I won’t use TTI again.

I detest their collectors. They don’t make (AFAIK) any header that uses a slip on collectors. That sucks. They also run all the tubes above the steering linkage. At least on the 1.625-1.750 small block headers anyway. And, they point the collectors in towards the centerline of the car.

What all that means is that once the headers are on the car it a giant PITA to work on anything under the car. To get the transmission out you either have to loosen up the headers, which then fall down in the way and you have to jury rig them half assed out of the way, or you have wrestle the transmission around to get one side higher than the other to get past the header.

I’ve been putting on and working on cars with headers since 1980. And those TTI’s are pretty miserable to work with nice they are on the car. The very first set I bought were 5204 Hookers for a 318. They are 1.750 headers, and every whiz bang in gym shorts said they were too big.

They weren’t and that little 318 made a lot of money on the street.

I’d much rather have a header that takes more effort to install that is easier to work on in the car than the other way around. The 5303 Hooker is the perfect example of a 1.875 header that is pretty miserable to install, especially the first time you do it, and it’s even worse if you don’t have the installation instructions. They only go on one way. There aren’t other options. I know. I have tried ways that I thought would be quicker but like normal, I was wrong and wasted a ton of time.

Once they are on, it’s a piece of cake to get to the plugs (the TTI’s have really good access to the plugs as well...that TTI did very well) and working under the car you can get to things without smashing your hands to get through some small space.

Just my observations and opinion.
Click to expand...
What are your thoughts on the Dougs Headers D453 on a mostly stock 340 as far as performance AND fitment?
 
1971 CY Dodge Dart said:
What are your thoughts on the Dougs Headers D453 on a mostly stock 340 as far as performance AND fitment?
Click to expand...

They work and fit great . At least they did in my Barracuda. Remember that you can mix and match engine mounts to get more clearance where needed ... at least you can on the older pre spool mounts.
 
yellow rose said:
That should have been called “how not to chose the right header”. Just bad information.
Click to expand...
just food for thought really - you already said everything that needed to be said when you said dyno
if you're that serious about optimizing performance and getting every last ounce of HP out of an engine, a dyno is it
 
JMO from seeing them, the TTI 1 7/8 LA headers are NOT good. I'd rather run the step headers on stuff than those other tti headers. They TTI do fit nice.
 
'68cuda416 said:
I agree with your assessment of the headers as i have a couple cars with the TTI's and a car with a custom built set, but I do feel there is too much emphasis being put on header size, and granted the larger ones will probably make more peak power but when it's all said and done I firmly believe that it's the torque converter that's the most important piece on a street/strip car or even straight drag car, it's the most overlooked and is the main factor in why some guys combo's run impressive ET's and other's similiar combo's just leave them puzzled and scratching their heads.
Click to expand...

agree. I have just 1 5/8 headers on my heap and it runs 10.70’s with them, good bit less head than a trick flow, and no roller.
Think my advice to the OP would be to keep what he has, before blowing a grand on a tenth or tenth and a half.
That said, if i did do the swap, would go the tubular automotive route over the TTI’s.. probably a bit more power
As a primary street car, would probably avoid hacking things to install the Headmans..but they likely make the most power
 
mbaird said:
They work and fit great . At least they did in my Barracuda. Remember that you can mix and match engine mounts to get more clearance where needed ... at least you can on the older pre spool mounts.
Click to expand...

they sure do fit good. Would go so far as to say they fit better than any A body header i have ever had. Definitely fit better than the TTI step, had those on a 416 in a Duster years ago. My 1 7/8 W5 TTI’s actually fit better than those step headers did on eddie heads
 
B3422w5 said:
they sure do fit good. Would go so far as to say they fit better than any A body header i have ever had. Definitely fit better than the TTI step, had those on a 416 in a Duster years ago. My 1 7/8 W5 TTI’s actually fit better than those step headers did on eddie heads
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I am running TTI 1 7/8 on my W2 408 in the Dart . They fit well also.
 
416 in a 74 with 1 7/8 and mine fit as good as the step headers did but just what I have seen on my car ,others could be different
 
If you do go with the bigger headers, Tubular Automotive are a very nice header. Well made and easy to install. They are designed for the strip and do not have a collector flange and are a multi-piece design on each side. A collector flange can be welded on for exhaust hookup. Easiest headers I have ever installed. I did not have to lift the engine or remove torsion bars or steering linkage. Just need to know the right order and angle to put them on each side. They do sit a bit low in the back. I ran the 1 7/8' version with adapters for my W2 setup in a 70 Dart which was strictly a bracket racing car. TTI would be a more street friendly header for ground clearance and the rest of the exhaust setup.

See some pictures below and their website. Page 11 of their catalog. TDR 8 is their part number. The head mating flange can be made for standard head or W2.

Catalog — Tubular Automotive


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For a 80/20 street/strip car that is a big solid roller. And I don't think 3-3500 is enough convertor. I run. 416/ Indybrock ported heads and the TTI 340 step headers with a Frank Lupo tight 4200 convertor. I run a solid roller though it a much smaller 246/250 571 lift. I really think for the street your going to grow tired of that cam.
 
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