[FOR SALE] Unfired 1963 Daytona Max Wedge

[jrpmccoy]

Suicide Sanders was a stock car racer of the 50's. He passed last year with his life's collection very much intact. Only his family and myself knew of this engine, I just saw it 2 weeks ago and am sorry I did not ask him for the full story behind. I was purchase in the 1966 time frame and is was built as a spare for someone running MOPAR in the 63 Daytona 500. It has the correct carbs, air cleaners, heads, block, clutch, intake, undercar "H" pipe, distributor (no cap) but we can not locate the exhaust manifolds. There is a Booklet from Dodge that has specs, parts and tuning tips as well. I had tried to reach out to Ray Fox with the hopes he would recognize the unique colors but he passed several days ago. Maurice Petty may know but I do not have access to him though I did forward pictures to Petty's Garage the other day.
Looks like I need to reduce the pics

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h474/jrpmccoy/Max Wedge 1963 NASCAR Motor/Engineside.jpghttp://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h474/jrpmccoy/Max Wedge 1963 NASCAR Motor/WedgeStamp.jpg
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h474/jrpmccoy/Max Wedge 1963 NASCAR Motor/WedgeTag.jpghttp://i1111.photobucket.com/albums...otor/bf9e40ea-21f3-45fb-b390-1b62572ecfdb.jpg

Well I go that figured out.....
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums...otor/196087ff-87da-4fb3-bd45-176ab333ea46.jpg

This booklet is in really good condition

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums...otor/2b025eb4-ff38-49d7-8672-8f4d9cc2d37e.jpg

There is a 2 in the front of this block casting number

I have more pics, have looking into the plug holes and the pistons are as new. The oil in it looks new and there is absolutely no "run" smell when a valve cover is off (done to verify casting number). There has been no attempt to turn it over, I feel the heads should be taken off and cylinders inspected, cleaned and lubed prior (remember the last time this was probably spun was in the 60's. I did note that the stamp font is different from the complete engines as well as it sports the date built code prior to the conversion used starting December of 62. Also note that the smaller 2 was used to overstrike what looks to be two larger letters. I have absolutely no clue what that all means only to say that the short block folks were different that the engine build folks? Perhaps someone can shed light on that, when in the process did they stamp the engine?

I can try to answer questions (remember I am not a MOPAR guy) but can look at it and get back. The son that is left to clean the "collection" does not have internet nor even a computer. The asking price is $30,000 OBO. We will not tear the engine down until there is a serious buyer with a deposit. If this is not what is represented (a collectable vintage 426 Max Wedge Race motor ) then a full refund of any deposit will be made. We would also ask the the story of Suicide (who raced the Daytona Shore NASCAR) be included. I would love to buy this thing but I have to many projects now. Let's find this a good home after 52 years of waiting to roar. This is located in upstate NY.

 

[1962polara]

Hi it's a nice story...looking at the engine,the stamping font is all wrong which affects the originality and therefore price / desirability,maybe post pics of the full cast # and cast date.
it seems as though it is made of different parts (heads being painted red).??
Only by removing the heads to check if it has original notches will it also add to the story.
Does it have the original sump?
It's really all about numbers ...maybe you can check &post them ( crank,rods,pistons,manifold,heads,carbs,air cleaners ,pulleys,sump) also the exhaust manifolds would be of value,so try and find those!
Selling parts individually would reap the best return IMHO .
Good luck with your endeavour

 

[moper]

I agree - nice story (and I'm not questioning it nor in the market for it) but when it comes to the dollars - you're asking all the money. I also agree with the stampings being strange to me. Given the that the engine has varying colors I would want to see it torn down before I even talked about price to verify correctness and condition.

 

[autoxcuda]

It's more valuable as a Max Wedge engine to a guy restoring a Max Wedge. In most of those years a Nascar motor was restricted to one carb. The typical nascar air cleaner was different than that too.

Major Values:
original vs over the country 63 High Compression block
carb numbers original and specific year MW vs replacement MW or non MW carbs (what are the numbers)
MW air cleaners
MW street car oil pan?
Intake numbers and date?
Numbers on distributor?
carb linkage if same as stock MW linkage
headpipe
probably some other things including pulleys.

You need to verify and have pictures of all those parts and numbers or you are just wasting you time attempting to get that kind of money out of it.

No one building as car with the value of recieving that engine would not fully dissassemble the motor, change bearings, rings at the very least.

 

[jrpmccoy]

Thanks for the comments/guidance. Indeed the motor was definitely built up from parts. Remember that I am not a MOPAR guy so based on what I have researched on the web, I am thinking (assuming it is correct date on block stamp) that the HC shortblock arrived in December of 62 and the builder used 413 Max Wedge parts for the heads and even intake (I had thought NASCAR only allowed a single 4 too but this is what's on it and it could have been changed). That intake predates the date stamping that was started in 62 but does have a PN. Was really hoping someone had seen something like this before (silver MOPAR Short Engine). Again, sorry I never asked for the full story but Al was very secretive about what he had laying around after an old 4 cyl Indian was stolen. Would be worth something if it could be tied to a car that ran the Daytona.

I have two engines on stands now (702 CI GMC V-12 and a refresh SBC for my 64 Vette, I know this is a MOPAR site... sorry) so I am not sure how far into this I can get. I will see if the current owner wants to spend time on it and can get a head pulled. He would want to still sell it all at once vs individual items. So... off to gather numbers. What is with the sump? Can I tell from the pan or does the pan need to come off?

Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[moper]

I can relate to the security concerns. The best way to be is quiet about what you have and where.
I think if you can, take it apart to the short block and document the part and casting numbers of everything that comes off. You don't have to publish all of it (I wouldn't) but then if/when a real buyer calls you have what he'll want handy. You may find some parts are worth more seperately. Ultimately you're friend is looking for max return so it's in his best interest anyway.

 

[2 Darts]

The log style exhaust manifolds and what appears to be a PCV on the passenger side valve cover don't seem very NASCAR to me. The VC issue is an easy fix. Bending tubes for the exhaust is going to be difficult, but not impossible.

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]The casting numbers for most RB, B, LA heads are found in two places. On the underside of the head on an intake runner, and under the valve cover on an intake runner. It may be necessary to remove the rockers and rocker shaft to get a clear reading. The casting for the head[/FONT] for a 62-63 Max Wedge is 2402286. The casting number for the block should be 2406730, so that part of the claim seems to be good. Given what a restored Max Wedge car is going for at auction, the block alone may be worth $30k to someone who is trying to complete a resto.

The B/W from Hot Rod illustrates a single quad NASCAR RB engine. The color shot of the Hemi illustrates the air cleaner housing style that has been kicking around stock car racing since Bill France was doodling on napkins in his kitchen. The engine breathes through the cowl.

Anyone interested in Al "Suicide" Sanders? http://ottosraceaction.com/RA-VIN-2.html

 

[jrpmccoy]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/scan-jpg.1914807/

Yes, here is a link to a pic showing the Max Wedge NASCAR manifold (the dual that is on this is a mystery then but so to is the whole motor). I had previously confirmed the head casting number by pulling a valve cover, they are 2402286. I did read that some NASCAR teams had exhaust exit each side but really love those wild pipes 2 Darts posted. I can not verify the NASCAR story other than those of us who know about this motor were all told the same thing.

Stay tuned, we will have to pull this apart, and get some numbers and pics. I suppose if the block is machined for the valves, it is for real and we just have to document what it has in it for pistons, rods, crank and sump.

I am hearing there is absolutely no value to keep it as it is (in the crate full of oil) and it's odd enough that it needs to be documented as to the build components. Nothing Al kept was run of the mill, I would be disappointed if this thing is not a Max Wedge. Will get block casting date too.

 

[fratzog lover]

Any updates on what happened to the engine? Came across this interesting thread!