Vacuum advance can adjustment

-
Just curious why, attitude? poor quality?

Multiple reasons. Most importantly they do nothing "special" or "unique" and never have. Plus their attitude sucks unless you're "yessing" everything they tell you. I dealt with them in the 90s and made up my mind back then. There's plenty of records of things along those lines never improving.
If you like their cool aid, buy their ****. I don't have any trouble making plenty of power by not using a single product of theirs.
 
I've changed the jets on the carb but waiting til I get timing set before completely tuning it. If I set 16 initial/36 total, it runs fine. But it idles better -- and has more vacuum obviously -- at 24 initial. Like I said before, the motor likes a lot of initial. When I had my old cam, I once timed motor by ear using a vacuum gauge. I got smoothest idle and highest vacuum and I looked and was at 40 initial. That wouldn't work. I'd like to run vacuum advance, but if I cant it's no big deal. As for my recent post, how do I adjust can based on my timing reading when I use mityvac on advance? Do I check timing at 2,600? Thanks

If you're happy with it, keep going what you're doing I guess. Some guys prefer locked out timing too. I've just never subscribed to that unless it was a race engine.
 
If you're happy with it, keep going what you're doing I guess. Some guys prefer locked out timing too. I've just never subscribed to that unless it was a race engine.
I'm going to set it up now at 18 initial, 36 total with about 50 all in with vacuum advance hooked up. I'll tinker with advance can to give me about 24 initial. That should be the sweet spot. It did run smoother with vacuum advance hooked up, so I'm not giving up yet.
 
Multiple reasons. Most importantly they do nothing "special" or "unique" and never have. Plus their attitude sucks unless you're "yessing" everything they tell you. I dealt with them in the 90s and made up my mind back then. There's plenty of records of things along those lines never improving.
If you like their cool aid, buy their ****. I don't have any trouble making plenty of power by not using a single product of theirs.
I bought their R-rockers, sb and bb, they seem to be a very decent product.
But yeah, I butted heads with that dude over the phone, told him his spacer kit would not work on TF heads. He said he had one out in the shop with those on it and they work fine.
I said you sure that ain`t a bb chevy? Man he got hot lol, I did`nt know he was mopar only shop. Short time later I got a e-mail admitting My dumbass was right and offered extra spacer combos," at my expense to make it work". Yeah, not a very pleasant guy to deal with. if that`s your reasoning.
 
I'm going to set it up now at 18 initial, 36 total with about 50 all in with vacuum advance hooked up. I'll tinker with advance can to give me about 24 initial. That should be the sweet spot. It did run smoother with vacuum advance hooked up, so I'm not giving up yet.
Hang on, that 2832 is a small cam; with an advertised of about 274/278/110.
With neither the Hughes 2330, nor their 3037, did I need to run them on manifold vacuum. And I see no reason to do that. If you have an automatic trans I could see the engine being ok with that, if you also have a higher stall TC.
But if your engine is stuck with a sub2000 stall, or a manual trans,or hi-compression iron heads,then that idea is IMO, not very good. And neither is running 18* initial.
But if your TC is a 2800 or better than it don't give a rip, so have at it.
My 2330 was almost dead smooth at 14* initial, and it would idle just fine down to 5*. I loved that cam.
My 3037 is not quite as smooth at still 14*, but still goes down to 5* and will pull the car around the parking lot at 550 rpm with a 10.97 starter gear (manual trans).
The biggest problem I have found, with a manual trans, is the engine gets a little sensitive to small throttle changes, making it difficult to drive slowly yet smoothly. The lack of timing, makes her more docile. You might not notice the jumpiness, but your wife may refuse to ride with you; mine did. So I tamed it for her. This is also more noticeable when running 4.10s than say 3.23s. With the more performance oriented gears a small torque increase (due to a small increase in throttle opening), rockets the car forward. Then with a manual trans, compression braking instantly slows the car; so you end up with a lot of seesawing.
Of course with an automatic, this behavior will likely get lost in the fluid coupling,IDK, I've not had such.
So after I get the T-port sync set up, with modest idle-timing, I bring the mechanical in to about 25/28* at 2500/2800, then bring the rest in slower to be all in shortly after 3200. This will smooth the power delivery, and it lets me run 87E10( aluminum heads and 175/190psi). You may be thinking WTH. But hey, it's a streeter, if I need more power, I just open the throttle further. When I'm getting on it, I only pass thru that zone once, and it's only in first gear,and the tires are always spinning anyways.

As to economy, yes theoretically you will get better fuel economy around town if you run more timing. But this assumes two things; 1) you are not seesawing on the throttle, and 2) you have a Vcan, cuz without it your economy is crappy anyway.
With a 24*Vcan you will be able to far surpass your engines part-throttle timing needs around town. And with 3.55s your cruise rpm might be 65=2800(or more), so in my case, I have 28*@2800 there, plus 22* in the can equals 50*, which would be plenty for iron heads@165/170psi.
But just to re-iterate this is for a manual trans, and/or a low-stall TC, or for any engine that is asked to pull from idle to about 2400rpm.
Your carb can be modified to have a sparkport, I have installed them on others.

Get your T-port synced and your tip-in will smooth right out. And for me, a smooth idle with a performance cam is not what I want,lol. I want it to shake and rattle and sound three sizes bigger than it is. Yours should idle real smooth at 850/900,and sound ready to rock at 550/600. But there is no reason to idle it much over 700. If an automatic, and it doesn't like being put into gear,you have a T-port/initial timing issue. (assuming the PCV is hooked up and working, and you have no air getting into the engine anywhere that it's not supposed to be getting in,lol, and that your valves are closing).
And that's AJ's Opinion
 
Last edited:
I once timed motor by ear using a vacuum gauge. I got smoothest idle and highest vacuum and I looked and was at 40 initial.
The engine appeared to like timing with more advance in neutral because it had almost no load on it. With an automatic transmission what I wrote earlier addresses that. That is
If you find it noticibly drops rpm when put into gear, experiment with slightly richer fuel mix and less timing at idle.
how do I adjust can based on my timing reading when I use mityvac on advance? Do I check timing at 2,600? Thanks
Yes. If you go to the bottom of the "how to" there are the instructions and recomendations from Mopar Performance. If its within a couple degrees, don't sweat it. It may be fine with a little more or a a little less than what they suggest. Exactly what is most efficient and powerful at cruise will vary with the load, combustion efficiency and fuel distribution of your specific setup. If timing is too much for a situation, the engine will tell you while driving. Checking the spark plug porcelain for specks of aluminum is a good way to check for less noticible detonation.
 
Last edited:
Hang on, that 2832 is a small cam; with an advertised of about 274/278/110.
With neither the Hughes 2330, nor their 3037, did I need to run them on manifold vacuum. And I see no reason to do that. If you have an automatic trans I could see the engine being ok with that, if you also have a higher stall TC.
But if your engine is stuck with a sub2000 stall, or a manual trans,or hi-compression iron heads,then that idea is IMO, not very good. And neither is running 18* initial.
But if your TC is a 2800 or better than it don't give a rip, so have at it.
My 2330 was almost dead smooth at 14* initial, and it would idle just fine down to 5*. I loved that cam.
My 3037 is not quite as smooth at still 14*, but still goes down to 5* and will pull the car around the parking lot at 550 rpm with a 10.97 starter gear (manual trans).
The biggest problem I have found, with a manual trans, is the engine gets a little sensitive to small throttle changes, making it difficult to drive slowly yet smoothly. The lack of timing, makes her more docile. You might not notice the jumpiness, but your wife may refuse to ride with you; mine did. So I tamed it for her. This is also more noticeable when running 4.10s than say 3.23s. With the more performance oriented gears a small torque increase (due to a small increase in throttle opening), rockets the car forward. Then with a manual trans, compression braking instantly slows the car; so you end up with a lot of seesawing.
Of course with an automatic, this behavior will likely get lost in the fluid coupling,IDK, I've not had such.
So after I get the T-port sync set up, with modest idle-timing, I bring the mechanical in to about 25/28* at 2500/2800, then bring the rest in slower to be all in shortly after 3200. This will smooth the power delivery, and it lets me run 87E10( aluminum heads and 175/190psi). You may be thinking WTH. But hey, it's a streeter, if I need more power, I just open the throttle further. When I'm getting on it, I only pass thru that zone once, and it's only in first gear,and the tires are always spinning anyways.

As to economy, yes theoretically you will get better fuel economy around town if you run more timing. But this assumes two things; 1) you are not seesawing on the throttle, and 2) you have a Vcan, cuz without it your economy is crappy anyway.
With a 24*Vcan you will be able to far surpass your engines part-throttle timing needs around town. And with 3.55s your cruise rpm might be 65=2800(or more), so in my case, I have 28*@2800 there, plus 22* in the can equals 50*, which would be plenty for iron heads@165/170psi.
But just to re-iterate this is for a manual trans, and/or a low-stall TC, or for any engine that is asked to pull from idle to about 2400rpm.
Your carb can be modified to have a sparkport, I have installed them on others.

Get your T-port synced and your tip-in will smooth right out. And for me, a smooth idle with a performance cam is not what I want,lol. I want it to shake and rattle and sound three sizes bigger than it is. Yours should idle real smooth at 850/900,and sound ready to rock at 550/600. But there is no reason to idle it much over 700. If an automatic, and it doesn't like being put into gear,you have a T-port/initial timing issue. (assuming the PCV is hooked up and working, and you have no air getting into the engine anywhere that it's not supposed to be getting in,lol, and that your valves are closing).
And that's AJ's Opinion
Thanks AJ. I never really thought of the 2832 as a small cam, but I guess maybe it is. It sure doesn't sound small. :) Anyway, I have a 727 with about a 3000 stall and 3.91 gears. I use five gallons of 110 racing fuel with 15 gallons of 93 with each fill up (plus ethanol treatment). It idles at about 850 in park and about 700 in gear. As for initial timing, for whatever reason, I need to run at least 16 initial. That's the floor. I guess some 340s are like that. Thanks again (though I must admit I have no idea what T-port means).
 
Thanks everyone!! Well, I think I got it. I'm at 18 initial, 35 total. After adjusting vacuum advance one turn CW, I'm at 24 initial, 50 total. Just what I was looking for. I wanted 36 total but I think this will work (don't want to pull distributor for 4th time to try to get one more degree mechanical.) PS, those little red "mechanical advance adjuster keys" aren't very accurate on my JEGs distributor. Thanks everyone for your help. Gonna take her out for a test.
 
Thanks everyone!! Well, I think I got it. I'm at 18 initial, 35 total. After adjusting vacuum advance one turn CW, I'm at 24 initial, 50 total. Just what I was looking for. I wanted 36 total but I think this will work (don't want to pull distributor for 4th time to try to get one more degree mechanical.) PS, those little red "mechanical advance adjuster keys" aren't very accurate on my JEGs distributor. Thanks everyone for your help. Gonna take her out for a test.
So is it correct that this 24 'initial' is actually 18 degrees of mechanical + 6 degrees of vacuum advance? If so, then the advance drops as soon as you push on the throttle with manifold vacuum. If I was gonna use manifold vacuum for the Mopar type of distributor, then it seems like I would want to soften the spring and perhaps the spring 'perch' inside so that the adjustment could be set for no vacuum advance at your idle and lower vacuum levels, and would start to open somewhere above the idle vacuum and reach max at around the cruise vacuum level. Of course, you gotta open the pod to do that....and you need a big enough cam to have idle vacuum levels well below the cruise vacuum levels.

But your driving test will tell you what you want to know...
 
I'm wondering why it needs so much octane,, flat tops and X heads?? Or are you just trying to be super safe? What CR does it measure out to.? Or did I miss something.
Yes, I'm trying to be super safe. No other reason. Though she does run better with a little 110.
 
So is it correct that this 24 'initial' is actually 18 degrees of mechanical + 6 degrees of vacuum advance? If so, then the advance drops as soon as you push on the throttle with manifold vacuum. If I was gonna use manifold vacuum for the Mopar type of distributor, then it seems like I would want to soften the spring and perhaps the spring 'perch' inside so that the adjustment could be set for no vacuum advance at your idle and lower vacuum levels, and would start to open somewhere above the idle vacuum and reach max at around the cruise vacuum level. Of course, you gotta open the pod to do that....and you need a big enough cam to have idle vacuum levels well below the cruise vacuum levels.

But your driving test will tell you what you want to know...
Thanks NM9. She drove fine, Actually had slightly better off idle response than before. But I am going to trace the curve and look into softening the springs so I start bringing in timing at about 1200 (don't want lower than that cuz I'd get too close for idle circuit for my liking). Right now it's a little higher than 1200 running two blue springs. Then I'll start thinking about vac springs and spring perch.
 
Roger.... BTW, I wonder if your carb still has the ported vacuum hole still in the main primary venturi (in the throat, not the auxiliary venturi) that you could tap into.
 
Thanks AJ. I never really thought of the 2832 as a small cam, but I guess maybe it is. It sure doesn't sound small. :) Anyway, I have a 727 with about a 3000 stall and 3.91 gears. I use five gallons of 110 racing fuel with 15 gallons of 93 with each fill up (plus ethanol treatment). It idles at about 850 in park and about 700 in gear. As for initial timing, for whatever reason, I need to run at least 16 initial. That's the floor. I guess some 340s are like that. Thanks again (though I must admit I have no idea what T-port means).
I can see your problem from here
AJ's guide to Transfer Port Synchronization

Not enough T-port exposure.
And I think someone mentioned this a long time ago before I did. Mattax in 14,and Moper alluded to it in 20.

When an engine wants a ton of timing at idle, it's usually because it is lean. When an engine drops 150 rpm going into gear, it's usually because it's lean.

The leanness is in the lowspeed circuit. The easiest way to make it richer is to increase the T-port exposure underneath the throttle valves. Then BACK-OFF the timing, so it doesn't smash into gear. Then trim the idle quality with the mixture screws. Give her the fuel she wants and that 228 installed properly, will idle at 500/525 in gear, with ZERO help from the Vcan. And it might gain 50 to 75 going into neutral, 100 at most with a tight TC, not your 3000.
 
Last edited:
-
Back
Top