Valve keepers

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carfreak6970

carfreak6970

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Hello folks, I need some assistance. So I was informed my valve keepers looked a little funny when I was trying to fix another problem with the engine which lead me down the road of needing to check the keepers. Basically it looked like the intake valve keepers were sticking out further than the exhaust ones. Well I got some time to look into it:

So here is pictures of my #8 intake valve stem and keeper
IMG_2104.jpeg


IMG_2106.jpeg


IMG_2105.jpeg



Here is the exhaust side
IMG_2108.jpeg


IMG_2107.jpeg


IMG_2109.jpeg


Now it appears that the intake valve keeper is sticking out of the retainer:

IMG_2110.jpeg


I measured the gap between the intake valve keeper on this engine and it is .114” inch. The gap on what I believe is an untouched 906 head sitting on a 440 in the corner of the shop is .055. Is that an issue?

A guy that is helping me out mentioned he is concern with how high the keeper is sticking out of the retainer. On my engine the dimension from the top of the valve to the top of the retainer on the intake is .123, and .186 on the exhaust. where as the dimensions on the 440 in the corner are .140 on the intake and .172 on the exhaust. Is this normal? There’s nothing in the shop manual about this.

Now it is hard to do get this measurement with calipers because the top of my retainer has a peak on it. But this measurement is taken from the top of the retainer to the bottom part of the retainer as close as I can get it to the keeper. But on the intake side that measurement is .069, on the exhaust it is .024 (with the keeper being above the retainer). On the 440 the measurement is .040 from top of retainer to top of keeper on intake, and .017 on the exhaust (with the keeper below the surface of the retainer on this one). Is this an issue? Or is all of this just difference in design and I am good to go?

This is a picture of the 440 #1 cylinder that I used for comparison:
IMG_2111.jpeg
 
Depending on year, some valve stems were 11/32, others 3/8, there could be a miss-match.
I've also had Comp keepers actually wear the ridges down to near dropping the valve .
Then there is the 2 different keeper angles .
Good luck
 
Looks like your intake keepers are -.050, oh and your notes are wrong, you do not have single groove keepers.
 
My notes are not wrong. I checked the receipts. The part numbers I listed are what I ordered. I will say that what is on my receipt and what is on the engine is not the same thing. I can only assume the machine shop used something they had on hand or ordered something else. Which now begs to question whether the retainers are correct, or even a match for the angle of the keepers…
 
Sometimes dummies can put keepers in on the wrong grove. Have you tried putting he keepers in the grooves and seeing how the fit without the retainer ? Then slide the retainer up to trap the keepers and see what it looks like. One of the keepers does look less round than the others.
Multigroove keepers should have minimal gap compared to single groove
 
I see something odd in the pic that has the keeper gap at 0.114"; but it could just be the pic angle.
Very noticeable with the left side keeper; towards the top, near where the 114 is measured, keeper looks to be sticking out a little, like there is a gap between it & the valve stem. Another way of putting it: looks like the keeper is designed for a bigger diam valve.
 
carfreak6970 said:
My notes are not wrong. I checked the receipts. The part numbers I listed are what I ordered. I will say that what is on my receipt and what is on the engine is not the same thing. I can only assume the machine shop used something they had on hand or ordered something else. Which now begs to question whether the retainers are correct, or even a match for the angle of the keepers…
Click to expand...
What you ordered and what you have are very different. You HAVE four groove exhaust valves and four groove keepers, per stock Mopar. So your notes don't match up with what you have, hence they are wrong.
 
MOPARMAGA said:
Sometimes dummies can put keepers in on the wrong grove. Have you tried putting he keepers in the grooves and seeing how the fit without the retainer ? Then slide the retainer up to trap the keepers and see what it looks like. One of the keepers does look less round than the others.
Multigroove keepers should have minimal gap compared to single groove
Click to expand...
yea it does appear that the gap is greater than what is on a stock 440 head I have sitting around.

Bewy said:
I see something odd in the pic that has the keeper gap at 0.114"; but it could just be the pic angle.
Very noticeable with the left side keeper; towards the top, near where the 114 is measured, keeper looks to be sticking out a little, like there is a gap between it & the valve stem. Another way of putting it: looks like the keeper is designed for a bigger diam valve.
Click to expand...
Yes the keeper for the intake does appear less round, like it was designed to have a gap. I dont know if it was for a bigger valve because I have the 3/8ths valve stems. I dont think Mopar had bigger stems available for the 906 heads? but if the valve stem should be bigger that only means the gap would be bigger too. If it was meant for a smaller valve you may not have the same engagement on the valve stems. but the amount of the keeper sticking out is what appeared troubling to my friend.


Murray said:
Are the intake and exhaust valves at the same height?
Click to expand...
yes they are


RustyRatRod said:
What you ordered and what you have are very different. You HAVE four groove exhaust valves and four groove keepers, per stock Mopar. So your notes don't match up with what you have, hence they are wrong.
Click to expand...
Oh I agree they are wrong. What is on the heads do not match up with what is on the paper work. Unless something got screwed up majorly at summit when I order them so many years ago (unlikely, but not impossible) and they sent the wrong stuff. But I feel that I ordered what I did, which was wrong for what I have, and the machine shop used something else. I do not know what they used (and ultimately is on the heads to this day) and has me thinking I need to get new keepers and retainers. Would you agree? I have no idea how else to ensure that the parts will match up and work together correctly.
 
carfreak6970 said:
yea it does appear that the gap is greater than what is on a stock 440 head I have sitting around.


Yes the keeper for the intake does appear less round, like it was designed to have a gap. I dont know if it was for a bigger valve because I have the 3/8ths valve stems. I dont think Mopar had bigger stems available for the 906 heads? but if the valve stem should be bigger that only means the gap would be bigger too. If it was meant for a smaller valve you may not have the same engagement on the valve stems. but the amount of the keeper sticking out is what appeared troubling to my friend.



yes they are



Oh I agree they are wrong. What is on the heads do not match up with what is on the paper work. Unless something got screwed up majorly at summit when I order them so many years ago (unlikely, but not impossible) and they sent the wrong stuff. But I feel that I ordered what I did, which was wrong for what I have, and the machine shop used something else. I do not know what they used (and ultimately is on the heads to this day) and has me thinking I need to get new keepers and retainers. Would you agree? I have no idea how else to ensure that the parts will match up and work together correctly.
Click to expand...
Normally, people do away with the four groove valves and keepers. I've never known why, unless it's simply to have everything the same, because I've never had a problem with them. But to answer your question, yes, you've got some mismatched parts there somehow, whether it's the keepers or retainers. I'd sure get it straightened out before I tried to run it.
 
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