Veers to the Right

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Gabriel Larson

Gabriel Larson

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I have been having a problem with my 1970 dart veering to the right after a crash that broke my lower RF ball joint. I clipped a ditch and ripped out lower ball joint and did dent the K frame. I have to this date put on new lower ball joints, tie rods, pitman arm, idler arm. brand new Qa1 tubular upper control arms. it has 10 inch front drums that I haven't rebuilt yet but pads look brand new and all the springs have color. The wheel bearing look to be in okay shape and I repacked them. I have had 3 alignments two at different les swabs and the third one I did with a teacher in my autobody class were I put on the new UCA. we got the measurements correct to the specification of QA1 sheet and nothing changed. When driving and letting go of the steering wheel it will self steer to the 2 clock pistons and when holding it straight and stomping on the brakes it will pull hard to the right. I do know the LCA bushing needs replacement along with the strut rod. I made sure that the power steering control valve was lined up by jacking up the car and turning it on the wheel didn't move at all and then I took power steering belt off and drove it still pulled to the right. for while now I have been blaming different parts like Power steering and brakes but I have come to the conclusion I do not know what is wrong I need help.
 
In addition to the bushing and strut rod, are the brakes adjusted correctly? Also, on your alignment, what was the thrust angle?
 
royslead said:
In addition to the bushing and strut rod, are the brakes adjusted correctly? Also, on your alignment, what was the thrust angle?
Click to expand...
I have adjusted the drums perfectly with only a slight drag when spinning and I forgot to print out the specs but the rear end was slightly to the left but was not crooked.
 
The ball joint arm looks long. Maybe it is normal but it just looks odd
 
The video is ridiculous. It was just a few seconds long, and the camera was moving too fast the whole time. They gave me vertigo. Why not take a lot of still photos, that we can study a bit?
 
I had the same symptoms on one of my 70 Darts and after struggling with it for a long time, we found out that the last time the drums were turned they didn't go all the way to the back of the drum and that left a bit of a lip that snagged on the brake shoes...
 
str12-340 said:
I had the same symptoms on one of my 70 Darts and after struggling with it for a long time, we found out that the last time the drums were turned they didn't go all the way to the back of the drum and that left a bit of a lip that snagged on the brake shoes...
Click to expand...

interesting did you feel it in the pedal at all or just figured it out when resurfacing the drums
 
str12-340 said:
I had the same symptoms on one of my 70 Darts and after struggling with it for a long time, we found out that the last time the drums were turned they didn't go all the way to the back of the drum and that left a bit of a lip that snagged on the brake shoes...
Click to expand...
You ACTUALLY HAVE a Place That turns Drums? Man, that's a lost art here!
 
A GOOD alignment shop can pinpoint the issue(s).
 
I would treat this as two problems because the first may turn out to "be" the second

1...Ignore the brake problem for now, and by the way there is NO way I would be driving this car except for short, careful test drives

2...So concentrate on alignment and accident DAMAGE. Bent, broken, cracked components. Don't ignore anything. Carefully inspect, and if it's oily/ greasy, get the engine bay/ underneath clean so you can see.
I would tear the front end apart and inspect everything/ anything. Use a crow bar. Remove A arms and inspect mounts/ anchors/ the A arms them selves, same with lower arms bushings etc.

Carefully inspect frame. Don't be afraid to poke, hammer, pry, scrape off undercoat, etc etc.
Consider yanking the K member out and REALLY inspecting it. You can devise a cradle from above, resting on the frame members, to support the engine and drop the K member out
 
Gabriel Larson said:
interesting did you feel it in the pedal at all or just figured it out when resurfacing the drums
Click to expand...

Not in the pedal but in the same symptoms described - very gentle pull to the right when drifting with no brakes, serious pull to the right when applying the brakes. The "lip" was very shallow (depth the drum was turned) and it hit the very edge of the material on the shoe. I finally found it after months of frustration when I took the drum off for the umpteenth time and saw the wear on the edge of the material on the shoe and traced it to the drum.
 
I wonder if the OP has thought about taking the car to a frame shop & having them check for bend issues. A friend broke a tie rod end at the track & grazed the wall with the right front fender. I went & looked at the car & noticed a small kink in the front frame rail. He took it to a frame aligner shop & the car was slightly twisted, just 1/2", he had run it a few times after fixing the broken parts & said that it pulled to the right. After the frame aligner was done, no more pull.
 
I'd be looking at the strut rods, too. That takes a lot of the reaction to braking. Try measuring to see if the wheel has moved in the fender opening. Compare the lengths of the strut rods, & for straightness, and make sure the anchors at each end are in good condition. Like I said before, include as many still pics as you can of suspension and the brakes, both sides, so we can offer better suggest instead of just spit-balling.
 
I'm looking at a minimum of two problems; First the pull.
If you have power-steering;
Get the front wheels off the ground. Turn the steering all the way to the side it drifts to. then start the engine. Now turn the steering wheel in the opposite direction. If it fights you, then you will have to center the spool valve in the PS box. Then put the wheels back on the floor.
---------
If no PS;
then swap the two front wheels from side to side, and roadtest it.. If no change;
First ensure that both front tires are the same brand and size and ALL tires are both inflated to the same pressure, then on a level floor, roll the car in either direction about 4 ft and then roll it back.
Measure from the floor to the underside of the BJ, and Floor to the LCA T-Bar socket on each side and compare them. If they are not the same then something is wrong and every alignment guy missed it. but if they are only out a hair, that could point to a bad T-bar setting or a problem in the rear suspension height. We need to fix that eventually.

As for the brake pull. When the rear weight shifts to the front during braking, the front end drops; both sides need to drop about equally. The brake force transfers from the spindles, to the the LCA, then the strutrods, then into the K-member thru the front bushings. To prevent a pull, both sides have to react the same, and have the same tug delivered to the same transfer points. SO, the LCAs have to be identical in measurements,with the BJ receivers similarly angled. The strut rods have to be the same length. The K has to be attached square to the rails and the stinking rails have to absolutely NOT move.
And finally, probably most importantly, the strut rod bushings have to behave in identical ways, especially in TENSION, as the brakes are trying to tear the wheel to the rear. If one bushing compresses significantly more than the other, this will affect the Effective strut length, and that is guaranteed to cause a pull as the camber and caster change, and yank the steering arm in a direction that you did not command.
So then, I would start at those bushings.
But pay particular attention to the LCAs that they are the same length from the strutrod mounts to the center of the BJ receivers.

OOPs I see you already checked the spool-valve.

Finally, if the lower BJ broke, it almost had to bend the upper BJ, as the spindle rotated.. I didn't see you mention replacing the uppers.
I highly doubt that a dent in the K would be a problem; you should see mine, lol.
 
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Just a stupit observation. When I first built my 66 Valiant, with all new front end and brake parts, I took it to be aligned. When driving it pulled to the right. At about 90 mph, it had a bad shimmy. Took it back to the alignment shop and had them redo it. same problem. Took it to a different shop, same problem. Took it to a frame shop. They had their "rack" tied up for about two weeks, and the owner sugested I take it to an alignment shop, first. Told him had 3 alignments at two different places, already. He gave me the name of another shop. I went there, and turns out their alignment tech was a fellow I had worked with, and is really good. John put the car on the rack, jounced it, did a visiual, and said "I see the problem". Set the car up, adjusted it, backed it off the lift, had me drive it in the parking lot, and it felt good. Left the shop and went right to the track for a TNT. Car went dead straight, and about 101 mph no sign of a shimmy.
The problem was, the other shops after adjusting the caster/camber, never thightened the nuts on the upper control arm adjusters. They were just bearly snug. As soon as any load was put on the suspension, it would shift out of alignment. Just sloppy workmanship, and took 4 alignments to find it.
 
Charrlie_S said:
never thightened the nuts on the upper control arm adjusters.
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Hang on a sec;
If those UCA bushings were new Moogs, And the bolts also new Moogs. I can tell you from my days as an alignment teck in the early 2000s, that there is not enough threads on those bolts . I kept a stock of thick hardened washers, and every one of these took at least one of those to put enough clamp-load on the frame ears so that the cams would not slip.
Good catch on your part, bad slip on your alignment guys.
 
67Dart273 said:
I would treat this as two problems because the first may turn out to "be" the second

1...Ignore the brake problem for now, and by the way there is NO way I would be driving this car except for short, careful test drives

2...So concentrate on alignment and accident DAMAGE. Bent, broken, cracked components. Don't ignore anything. Carefully inspect, and if it's oily/ greasy, get the engine bay/ underneath clean so you can see.
I would tear the front end apart and inspect everything/ anything. Use a crow bar. Remove A arms and inspect mounts/ anchors/ the A arms them selves, same with lower arms bushings etc.

Carefully inspect frame. Don't be afraid to poke, hammer, pry, scrape off undercoat, etc etc.
Consider yanking the K member out and REALLY inspecting it. You can devise a cradle from above, resting on the frame members, to support the engine and drop the K member out
Click to expand...
I'm gonna take your advice, once my dad get his Toyota truck new wheel bearing in out of the garage I'm gonna pull both LCA and rebuild/ inspect them and look at the K frame. ordered all the parts yesterday including some bigger torsion bars!
 
I’m not going to pretend to know much about alignments but right now mine is sitting at a frame shop for an alignment because one of the spindles was bent. Used parts so I don’t know what happened but that’s my .02.
 
Possibly a bad tire. I had a 98 Dakota that started pulling to the right. I tried everything. Then someone said that a bad tire (belt slipped or.....) could cause more drag/rotational friction and thus a pull. So I swapped the front tires sided to side and it started to pull the opposite direction. I got two new tires for the front, and the pulling went away.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Hang on a sec;
If those UCA bushings were new Moogs, And the bolts also new Moogs. I can tell you from my days as an alignment teck in the early 2000s, that there is not enough threads on those bolts . I kept a stock of thick hardened washers, and every one of these took at least one of those to put enough clamp-load on the frame ears so that the cams would not slip.
Good catch on your part, bad slip on your alignment guys.
Click to expand...
??? So the Moog inner sleeves were too short and or the bolts were not threaded down far enough?
 
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