What all will fit?

-
M

mopardug

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
492
Reaction score
171
Location
Central KY
Hi all. Will the OE auto that's behind a 4.7 2WD Dakota bolt up to any SBM or V-6 mopar?
Want to replace the 4.7 with a 360 or 5.9 Magnum.
Thanks for passing thru :thumbsup:
 
The 4.7 has the same bellhousing pattern as the 3.9, and the small blocks. So yes, the transmission will bolt to a small block.
 
Sorry, she's a '02. Thanks all.
How many of the accessories (PS/AC/Cruise, etc) will bolt up, or do I need to find these parts for a 5.9?
 
mopardug said:
Sorry, she's a '02. Thanks all.
How many of the accessories (PS/AC/Cruise, etc) will bolt up, or do I need to find these parts for a 5.9?
Click to expand...
I don't think any of the accessory brackets will interchange.
 
Here's what we want to accomplish:
12.8 ET
17+ MPG
All accessories to work: AC/cruise/OD/etc
Reliable enough for 800+ mile trips

Here's what we have to work with:
'02 Dakota QuadCab 2WD
She's got a 4.7 and the upgraded auto transmission
I can post the window sticker. She's basically stock-no performance parts
260800K miles

We have a couple of 360's, a mid '90's 5.9 shortblock, and an '85 318 longblock, a '06 5.7 out of a truck, and several BBM's.
For SBM: we have a set of 308's that brian6pac was working on before he passed. They're not ready to bolt-on, and not sure what they need.
A bare set of Magnum R/T heads
A set of cast iron Indy Magnum heads, they're almost done. No CNC porting, just cleaned up around the ports, and set up for a cam under .550 lift

We have a set of Indy EZ heads for a BBM.

I'd like to do the 5.9 NA for simplicity, and would do a stroker if need be...
 
I’ve heard a 5.7 can be slid under the stock 4.7 wiring harness and made to work really easy. Maybe need to re-pin a couple of wires? I know of a guy that did it to an ‘04 but nothing I spent much time researching so not sure what all it took.
 
The trans will physically bolt to the older engine. Keep in mind, the 4.7 and 5.7 Hemi engines have a different crank flange offset. Finding a proper flexplate will be un-obtainium. The 4.7/5.7 engines also have 8 bolt crank flange.
 
if you get past the flexplate issue make sure to check the hole in the rear of the crank for the converter snout also...
 
My thought was to get the OD trans rebuilt to handle like 450HP/450TQ, and get a converter/flex plate that matches up.

We also have a beater '04 Dakota QuadCab 2WD V-6 for parts.
I was "told" that I could use the accessory mounts from the V-6 to make everything play nice with the 5.9.

Does anyone have experience getting ~400HP out of a 5.9, but keeping the EFI?

It looks like she's going to be somewhere around 4500 lbs, not counting my fat ***.

With the OD, I was thinking 3.55 or 3.92 gears. IIRC, my '00 QuadCab 5.9 had 3.55's in her, and the R/T's had 3.92's.

Has anyone heard of these folks?
94-02 Dodge Ram / Durango / Dakota 5.2L / 5.9L V8 Stainless Racing Manifold Header Exhaust + Heat Wrap

I want to get a game plan before we start throwing cash at her.
 
So it looks like you have a 45RFE trans, same as the 545RFE. You will need a TCM to run that trans, and I think you will have problems getting a PCM that will run the 5.9 to work with any TCM. Which is why I think the 5.7 is the better swap if you want to run the 45RFE.

Otherwise I think you will need to find a stand alone controller for the transmission. No idea if they exist.

If memory serves (which is usually doesn't), the 5.7 swaps need a deeper flexplate when using a 727 which would mean (if I have it right) a 5.9 to 45RFE combination would need a shallower flexplate or (more likely) a shim between the block and bellhousing to push the trans back and maintain room for the torque converter.

The parts V6 Dakota should (I think) have a 42RE. This or a 46RE would be workable using the PCM from something with a 5.9.

The 2002 Durango was available with a 5.9 so you could maybe swap the engine/trans/harness from one of those.

Last option I can think of is to add a crank and cam sensor to the 5.9 that duplicates the 4.7 signals so the PCM thinks it is still running a 4.7. Might need to repin the connector to move injectors and coils around if the firing order is different.
 
^^Was just going to post that. If you have a TF (A904) based as in 42/44/46RE it STILL needs electronic control, or I believe some folks offer an all manual valve body.

So far as I know there's only 1 or maybe 2 stand alone controllers for the 45/545 and they ain't cheap
 
Is getting a 5.9 in the output that we're looking for, and to play nice with the existing accessories, going to be cheaper/easier than dropping in a 5.7 and making that work?
I know the 5.9 was available in both a Dakota and Durango of this generation. My thought was to basically do a 5.9 swap, but with more HP/TQ. I'll post the trans that she's got later this evening. The original owner actually kept the window sticker.
 
I doubt the accessories will be much of an issue. The V6 should have all the mounts, can't see why things like the alt and PS wouldn't hook up fine.

The issue I see is with the transmission. Almost certain you have a 45RFE, which probably won't be spelled out on the window sticker. I don't know that a 5.7 would be easier but it has a better chance of the Hemi PCM talking to the TCM and working. The 5.9 PCM will not talk to the TCM and will never work.

I think your idea of doing a 5.9 swap since it was available in the Durango is great. Just as long as you swap the transmission at the same time. The issue is the 45RFE and mating it to a 5.9 and making it shift.
 
The 5.9 and 4.7 are two totally different animals. Front accessory drives are specific to each. OP says his og engine is a 4.7, let's not get confused on the situation.....
 
The green plug on the PCM is what controls the trans, or so I've been told. The 5.7 swap would almost be easier. Not easy, just easier than the 5.9/360. Yes they can built to have power. Where's the budget end?
 
408 swinger said:
The 5.9 and 4.7 are two totally different animals. Front accessory drives are specific to each. OP says his og engine is a 4.7, let's not get confused on the situation.....
Click to expand...

Yep, not saying the accessories from the 4.7 would work on the 5.7, only that the 3.9 accessories in his parts Dakota would work on the 5.9.

At the same time, the electronics for a 5.7 are much closer to a 4.7 than what is on a 5.9. So a 5.7 would be easier to swap and would bolt up to his 45RFE, even though there are things that would still take work.
 
408 swinger said:
The green plug on the PCM is what controls the trans, or so I've been told. The 5.7 swap would almost be easier. Not easy, just easier than the 5.9/360. Yes they can built to have power. Where's the budget end?
Click to expand...

That's the NGC controller, the OP could also have the JTEC controller as (I think) the NGC computer was phased in late 2002. So he is in a crossover year for the truck in question.

Not sure if the 5.9 rig's stuck to the JTEC and the 4.7 could go either way? Certainly another trouble spot for this swap.
 
Here's the sticker. She does have the 45RFE.

So, if we keep that trans, the 5.7 will work better with the controller that's in the truck now?

If we want to do a 5.9 swap, we need to find a trans that was behind a 5.9, and a wiring harness that was with a 5.9, correct?

Will a trans from a 5.9 powered 1500-3500 work, or do I really want to get the 5.9 stuff (trans, harness) from a Durango ( more common than a 5.9 Dakota)? What else do we want to get out of the 5.9 powered vehicle?

We'd like to get all of the pieces and parts to do the swap for under $2G's...that's not including rebuilding the trans or engine.

I've been thinking about a Gen III Dakota for better than 15 years. At the inaugural MoParty, Holley had 'seminars' about putting Gen III's in different vehicles. They did a '99, IIRC, Dakota R/T ClubCab for their Gen III swap. $26G's later-that did include the cost of the R/T, but not everything that they used had a cost...several were parts that they made to make the swap. And I thought that there were still some issues with their test mule.

I figured that the 5.9 would be down on power and fuel economy vs the hemi in stock form. And I figured that either engine/ trans would have to be rebuilt. The rest of the stuff, rear end, gears, tubs, wouldn't really be cheaper one setup vs the other. So, in my reckoning, it looks like the 5.9 setup would be less costly than the Gen III installed, with similar power outputs. But I'm an idiot, what do Y'all think?

Resized_20230607_000407.jpeg
 
I've been negligent, here's what we're working with...we DIDN'T have to pay extra for the rust:rofl:

20230604_113339.jpg


20230604_113301.jpg


20230604_113248.jpg


20230604_113230.jpg


20230604_113220.jpg


20230604_113130.jpg


20230604_113203.jpg


20230604_113150.jpg
 
Sorry, read the reply and forgot to respond.

I'm no expert in this stuff, but here are my thoughts.

mopardug said:
Here's the sticker. She does have the 45RFE.

So, if we keep that trans, the 5.7 will work better with the controller that's in the truck now?
Click to expand...

Shocked it says what trans it has, but there it is.

Not saying a 5.7 would work better, only that it has a better chance of working with the wiring harness and that you will need something like it to maintain the TCM the trans needs. Not sure if there is a PCM that would work with a 2002 Dakota, that is the big unknown. Pretty sure there is an '04 PCM that might work with an '04 Dakota because the Hemi came out in '04. Pretty sure you have to be careful with matching the year of the truck to the PCM. Maybe not, but definitely something to research before pulling the trigger on anything. Could be that the '04 PCM for a 5.7 would work, but might not either.

So, if you want to keep the 45RFE, I think it has a better chance of succeeding if you keep the wiring harness, re-pin it as need to work with a Hemi PCM as needed and find a PCM that would work.

mopardug said:
Will a trans from a 5.9 powered 1500-3500 work, or do I really want to get the 5.9 stuff (trans, harness) from a Durango ( more common than a 5.9 Dakota)? What else do we want to get out of the 5.9 powered vehicle?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you can get a 46RE trans out of just about anything and it would work. Far as I know they are all the same. You could also do a 42RE like is probably in the parts V6 Dakota. It would bolt up and run just like the 46RE would, and would even give you a deeper first gear. Biggest issue would be longevity as the 46RE is build to handle more torque.

I would guess you just need a wiring harness and PCM out of a 5.9 Durango. But you might have to start with that and see if anything else is required. I found several threads doing a Google search on "4.7 to 5.9 swap". But I have slept since then. :D

mopardug said:
I figured that the 5.9 would be down on power and fuel economy vs the hemi in stock form. And I figured that either engine/ trans would have to be rebuilt. The rest of the stuff, rear end, gears, tubs, wouldn't really be cheaper one setup vs the other. So, in my reckoning, it looks like the 5.9 setup would be less costly than the Gen III installed, with similar power outputs.
Click to expand...

It think the 5.9 would be the cheaper swap since it was kind of a factory option, just in the Durango and not in the Dakota. I think the 5.7 will put done more power and have greater potential, but not sure where the crossover line would be when the cost of doing the swap is added into the equation. Plenty of people are making big power with 408's in Dakota's so the 5.9 has it's place.

Something else to add in the mix is that as best I can remember the '04 Hemi PCM is not tunable, but the '05 is. And if the '04 PCM works in your '02 Dakota (still a big unknown), but the '05 PCM won't, then you will have to accept whatever power you are getting out of the 5.7 because you will be pretty much stuck. On the other hand, the 5.9 PCM can be tuned, of that I am certain.

Best I've got.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top