What am I doing wrong?? Timing cover/post cam install

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dart65

dart65

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Hi all. I just put in a new comp cam, lifters, timing chain, and tensioner, but I cant get the timing cover to seal. I went through two gaskets both slip out the top of the timing cover when I start toqruing the cover down. I am using permate/ liberal amount on both sides and a felpro gasket.

-Now I am getting worried about trying to get the intake back on. This is my first cam swap and I feel I may be in over my head.

Any tips or pointer at all are appreciated!!!!
thanks

oh ya its a 273 with the bolt on timing tab and all
 
Do ya have a shop manual? For the record, what year model is the car/ engine?

"Liberal amount" may be your problem, and what exactly are you using for sealer? Some sealers, when applied too heavy, can actually act as a LUBRICANT. (Permatex is a brand name, like General Motors, and does NOT tell us what you are using)

I use Permatex "the red stuff" forgot the exact name, EDIT either "high tack" or "Super 300" It's RED. It's more of a contact cement. Put A LITTLE on the cover and gasket, with the bolts in place, and glue the gasket to the cover. Put a little on the other side of the gasket and the engine, allow to get tacky, and install the cover. After tightening down, see below.......

Also, in your situation, I would NOT use either the front pan gasket, nor would I use either the front or rear intake gaskets. After installing the cover, use a BIG bead of silicone to seal the cover to the pan, after getting both ABSOLUTELY clean!!!

Same deal on the front/ rear gaskets for the intake. Don't use em............lay a big bead of silicone, and smooth it with your finger or a rag/ towel after snugging down the intake. INSPECT these beads with a flashlight and mirror to be sure they are sealed. Let the engine sit a day if you can, to cure.
 
4spdragtop said:
I would put goop and gasket on timing cover...not on both sides of gasket
Click to expand...

I tried looking up goop. Is it "amazing goop", and just to clarify you would put it on the gasket side that mates to the timing cover not the block correct?? How much liberally conservative??
 
67Dart273 said:
Do ya have a shop manual? For the record, what year model is the car/ engine?

"Liberal amount" may be your problem, and what exactly are you using for sealer? Some sealers, when applied too heavy, can actually act as a LUBRICANT. (Permatex is a brand name, like General Motors, and does NOT tell us what you are using)

I use Permatex "the red stuff" forgot the exact name, EDIT either "high tack" or "Super 300" It's RED. It's more of a contact cement. Put A LITTLE on the cover and gasket, with the bolts in place, and glue the gasket to the cover. Put a little on the other side of the gasket and the engine, allow to get tacky, and install the cover. After tightening down, see below.......
Also, in your situation, I would NOT use either the front pan gasket, nor would I use either the front or rear intake gaskets. After installing the cover, use a BIG bead of silicone to seal the cover to the pan, after getting both ABSOLUTELY clean!!!

Same deal on the front/ rear gaskets for the intake. Don't use em............lay a big bead of silicone, and smooth it with your finger or a rag/ towel after snugging down the intake. INSPECT these beads with a flashlight and mirror to be sure they are sealed. Let the engine sit a day if you can, to cure.
Click to expand...

-OK that is some good info. The car is 65 dart gt, engine is a 273 1965 block with 1966 head so as to avoid the wierd intake angle. My manual is for a 64 dart no LA engine listed only poly 318 i beleive. I was using ultra black silicone on the timing cover gasket as well as the oil pan tabs.
On the intake manifold what do you use around the water ports silicone???
thanks
 
I usually just put a dab of silicone on my finger and spread. As mentioned, to much will act as a lubricant.....
 
Have not used a gasket on the timing chain cover or water pump in 30 yrs....only use blue RTV
 
For LA engine work, the oldest manual I'm aware of you can download is a 66, but even the 68--72 manuals are OK for much of the drive train

66 manual from MyMopar. You have to "play" with page numbers

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

download link:

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1966_Plymouth_Service_Manual.zip

69 Dart manual, again, much of the engine/ trans stuff is the same. These use the "normal" Chrysler "dash" page numbers

[ame]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/69%20dodge%20service%20manual.pdf[/ame]
 
67Dart273 said:
For LA engine work, the oldest manual I'm aware of you can download is a 66, but even the 68--72 manuals are OK for much of the drive train

66 manual from MyMopar. You have to "play" with page numbers

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

download link:

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1966_Plymouth_Service_Manual.zip

69 Dart manual, again, much of the engine/ trans stuff is the same. These use the "normal" Chrysler "dash" page numbers

http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc. car info/69 dodge service manual.pdf
Click to expand...

Wow thank you very much that is a tremendous resource!!
 
The goop is the problem. You're not supposed to use it on gaskets at all except for very few exceptions. Timing cover gaskets go on dry, with the possible exception being some kinda adhesive to hold it in place, such as 3M yellow weatherstrip, NOT permatex. Permatex acts as a lubricant in this instance and allows the gasket to slip and slide as torque is applied (as you found out). Clean it all up and install it dry. If it still leaks, you have other problems.
 
Timming covers are aluminum and subject to distorting. Lay it on something flat like a piece of glass and you might find the larger bolt holes around the perimiter are holding the small upper edge away from your block. A 220 grit sand paper will produce about the right surface finish. Some sand mating parts too smooth. A very fine wet sand would only allow the gasket to slide.
 
67Dart273 said:
Do ya have a shop manual? For the record, what year model is the car/ engine?

"Liberal amount" may be your problem, and what exactly are you using for sealer? Some sealers, when applied too heavy, can actually act as a LUBRICANT. (Permatex is a brand name, like General Motors, and does NOT tell us what you are using)

I use Permatex "the red stuff" forgot the exact name, EDIT either "high tack" or "Super 300" It's RED. It's more of a contact cement. Put A LITTLE on the cover and gasket, with the bolts in place, and glue the gasket to the cover. Put a little on the other side of the gasket and the engine, allow to get tacky, and install the cover. After tightening down, see below.......

Also, in your situation, I would NOT use either the front pan gasket, nor would I use either the front or rear intake gaskets. After installing the cover, use a BIG bead of silicone to seal the cover to the pan, after getting both ABSOLUTELY clean!!!

Same deal on the front/ rear gaskets for the intake. Don't use em............lay a big bead of silicone, and smooth it with your finger or a rag/ towel after snugging down the intake. INSPECT these beads with a flashlight and mirror to be sure they are sealed. Let the engine sit a day if you can, to cure.
Click to expand...

X2...my only departure from the above is that I do use a very sparing amount of Ultra Black Permatex to hold water pump gaskets in place during assembly as opposed to the high tack...I have used high tack and shellac compounds before and they work well...I just usually don't have them around, but I always have at least a tube of Ultra Black in the garage.
 
RustyRatRod said:
NOT permatex.
Click to expand...

Rob please stop using the term "Permatex."

"Permatex" is not a product, it's a BRAND NAME.

As I said earlier, what I'm using is more like contact adhesive, and it does not move when properly used.
 
Ok fair enough. NOT silicone. How's that? lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ok fair enough. NOT silicone. How's that? lol
Click to expand...

Yeh....exactly, LOL. I was just gonna "edit" that ......I could say I "used Permatex" and meant that used silicone.

"In my day" if somebody said "used Permatex" they usually meant traditional "no1" or "no2"
 
Indianhead. lol you ever try to remove that stuff.lol
 
no1 permatex hardens
no2 nonhardening.
i don't use it!
black silicone for me.
 
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