What Cam would you suggest with this

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Eworth

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Can you guys give me some suggestions on a camshaft for my specific application please?

1964 Dart with: 318 engine, .30 over, 600 cfm Holley, Edelbrock performer intake, stock exhaust manifolds. 904 tranny with stock converter (although I'd like to bump to a 2000rpm stall down the road maybe) and has an 8 3/4 rear with a 3:55 Suregrip

Would like a cam in the 1500-5000 rpm range. With some attitude at idle. (no power brakes or power steering to worry about)

What say you? Eager for suggestions. Thanks in advance.
 
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A 2000 stall is nothing for a Chrysler. You have to understand, Chrysler used higher stall speeds in their stock converters than the other domestic makers of the time. A stock low stall Chrysler converter would stall around 1200-1500. The factory high stall about 1000 more than that, so when you say "2000 stall" you are still in stock converter territory.

As for a camshaft, a good off the shelf cam would be something like the Comp 265DEH, but as reasonable as custom cams are, I would not go off the shelf, nor would I go Comp. I just gave that as an example of a decent grind.
 
I wasn't aware of the factory converter info. Thank you.
Will look at the specs of the 265DEH. Thanks
 
for a good healthy sounding camshaft that is not so radical you can pop corn on, go with the specs for a stock 340 grind cam shaft for an automatic its like a .424 / .444 .
Sounds good at idle, 1200-5500rpm range for pulling and not so radical that you need to change your rocker gear.
I would however invest in a new set of lifter springs. They get weak over time and a stock set from an auto parts store are cheap like $50.00 usd.

Joe
 
Lunati Voodoo Cam 10200701LK should work good for what you want. Voodoo cams are easier on the valve train compared to Comp cams.
 
I ran this in a "teen", 65 Barracuda, MP converter 166K what ever that means, same gears, Thorley "D"-Dart headers, it was fun!!

Crane Blazer, now called Power Max, H-288-2, maybe old school, but it would rip!!!
 
With teener manifolds; you gotta go easy.
In a 64 you don't need much.
If you are picking a cam for attitude at idle, um, you may be sacrificing things to get it.
What cam? IDK, but:

If I had a 64 with manifolds, I would seriously bump up the compression, and put a teeny 340/360 type cam in it.And like said; put some springs on it, so it will rev to 5800 reliably. I would put monster pipes on it all the way to the back.
That's it.That's all.
Then I would put a 4.10 SG in the back, with some serious traction aiders.
And a 2400 to 2800TC.
Then I would go out and pound on it.
I would have the quickest zero to 60, teener car around.

I agree with Rusty, I would get a custom cam.

With a 5800 shift-rpm I could have some serious lift. I would be looking for a power peak around 4600 to 4800, and a power band of 2400rpm to match the automatic.With 4.10s second gear cruise at 30mph will be around 2350. No one will be suspecting anything. But when the hammer falls, the Rs will climb to 4000, and I will be blasting off to a 44mph shift, and second will be passing through 60 at 4700( right at the hp peak), on it's way to shift at 74mph. Then third is good to 107@5800
All that on a teeny 340/360-type cam.
I would pump the Dcr up to 8.0 to 8.5, which is in the detonation zone for 87; but my secret weapon would be in the tune, or 91gas. I would probably have 360 size valves in closed chamber teener heads, Like Magnums,with not much more than bowl clean-up, and flat-top pistons.
With a 262/270/114 cam, in at 110, the ICA would be 61*, and so;
Zero deck, 5cc eyebrows,8.9cc gasket ,closed chamber heads at 60cc,totals 73.9cc. The 3.95 holes make 664.47cc, so the Scr will be;9.99. Let's go with that.Easy. With a 9.99Scr, and 61*ICA, And a total chamber volume of 73.9cc, the Dcr will be 8.14, and the Cranking pressure might be 163psi.Close enough.
BTW that 262 cam might be a 218@050. That size cam could get by with less TC than earlier mentioned. That's "get-by". If you want quick off the line, you will need more TC, like 2800 to 3200, Ima thinking.
But If your pistons are already installed, then you will have to go with whatever they measure, down in the hole.and if you don't have closed chamber heads, well then compression,will not be your teeners strong suit. Not to panic, a bigger TC will get the engine past the soft spot real quick.
Back to the cam question;I still,DK
I put the above combo into a 71Demon back in the 70s. It was killer with a 340 cam,headers,LD340, and small 4bbl.I never opened the engine other than to pop in the 340 cam.....4.10s and 2800,will wake anything up!That's a starter gear of 10.05.
I ran a LC teener,with a stone stock long-block,and with a 10.97 starter gear, in my 68Barracuda; for 4 winters. Nothing but; headers, a factory iron intake, and a small TQ. It was TNT!
That theoretical cam above with 262/272/114, has only 39* overlap, so pretty tame. The exhaust doesn't close until74* ABDC, so there's plenty of energy still in the exhaust, to make nice popping noises.Put rectangular exhaust tips on it, and it might sound like a 340. Put the biggest pipes on it you dare, at least until the muffs. I used TTIs and dual 3 inchers all the way to the rear turn downs. Man that teener pulled.

Short of Supercharging, there is nothing that you can do to your teener that will be as effective as gears and a big TC. NoThing. 4.10s offer 50% more torque multiplication than 2.76s.. 50PerCent! That will feel like adding 159 cubic inches. Add to that a 2800TC, and that's another bunch of foot pounds. Your 64 will be launching like a BB;albeit a BB with stock equipment.Maybe it will feel like a stroker-BB;at least until it hits high gear.
This is how M/T Mustangs do it; A deep starter gear, well matched splits,and an O/D to cruise with.Sorry, with 4.10s; 60Mph will be around3250, so I guess you're staying local.
One more time: IDK what cam. I would wait until the Scr comes in.
 
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Syleng1 said:
for a good healthy sounding camshaft that is not so radical you can pop corn on, go with the specs for a stock 340 grind cam shaft for an automatic its like a .424 / .444 .
Sounds good at idle, 1200-5500rpm range for pulling and not so radical that you need to change your rocker gear.
I would however invest in a new set of lifter springs. They get weak over time and a stock set from an auto parts store are cheap like $50.00 usd.

Joe
Click to expand...
I will check into this Joe. Thank you!
 
Hell of a write up AJ/form$! Thanks! What a great combo but the 3:55s stay and no headers. Have to work with what I have to some degree.
 
In 64 the 318 was a poly engine so what year engine and heads are you starting with?
 
Definitely need to do things to bump the compression. Closed chamber heads, deck the block and then port match the top of the intake runners on the heads (yes I learned this here from another member) may even have to open the bolt holes a little on the intake. The 340 cam should be more than adequate for the cast iron manifolds.
 
If I had your combo, and was stuck with the 3.55/auto trans,I would hang myself. Well, ok that might be excessive, but then you will need a lil more TC, if you want to get away briskly.If you want to show well at 30 mph, you will need a 3400.This is cuz your gearing with 3.55s is all wrong at 30mpg.But by 36mph, she will jump.Unfortunately, she will have to pull all the way to 50 mph before the shift.

But if you just want to cruise around and have fun, then 3.55s are hard to beat.
Just don't be picking on 360 A's, at under 36mph, or any teeners with 4.10s!
lol.
Also, with 3.55s, you will have to lower the Scr I described above. With the engine more heavily loaded now; 9.99 will likely be a half point too much. So again wait until the final Scr numbers are in.
You may have to go to a bigger cam to lose some cylinder pressure, to stay out of detonation.And that would be a shame.Cuz that would lead to a higher operating range, which leads to a wider operating powerband requirement or a higher TC or or or back to the 4.10s.Of course with the higher TC and extra power the skinny minneys out back won't stick anymore, and your 60fts will suck.Actually all of first gear will go up in smoke;So then you have to fix that, which usually means mini-tubs, a narrowed rear, relocated springs, and bigger meats with new wheels.
Hyup the joys of too big a cam..... binderdundat !! Maybe hanging wasn't that far off.........lol
One good thing about the bigger cam is that now it will have an idle attitude, and you get to deal with that whole tuning thing.
And the the teener manifolds may warp and crack, and you get to start over.I mean they were designed for what?, 195hp in 78.......
 
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Guy just wants a cam and you guys want to rebuild his whole car. I 2nd the comp 265deh cam will give you a good bump in power. You could do the custom cam but probably similar in specs anyways.

I wouldn't worry about manifolds under 300-350 hp they don't matter much. I've been looking into cause like you I'm stuck with shitty 273 manifolds. Ive seen two different create 300 hp 360 doing different manifold to header shoot outs and one 500 hp 440 manifolds to headers shoot out.

There was basically 2 hp difference from 318 to 360 and 360 to 340 and 340 to shorty headers and 5 hp between shorty and long tube. 318 manifolds made 311hp and long tube did 321hp im guessing once you reach 350 hp headers start to become mandatory. They didn't do 273 manifolds but there probably same as 318 or at most 2 hp less. Magnum as a set was in between 360 and 340 but they found a combo of one magnum and one 340 was the best pair. In the 440 shoot out the shorty made 50 hp and long tube made 70 hp over.

I wouldn't dig into your engine for more CR unless it also included porting and more cam then it would be worth it. But that could be a down the road mod after you get tired of the decent power bump from the cam.
 
AJ/FormS said:
If I had your combo, and was stuck with the 3.55/auto trans,I would hang myself. Well, ok that might be excessive, but then you will need a lil more TC, if you want to get away briskly.If you want to show well at 30 mph, you will need a 3400.This is cuz your gearing with 3.55s is all wrong at 30mpg.But by 36mph, she will jump.Unfortunately, she will have to pull all the way to 50 mph before the shift.

But if you just want to cruise around and have fun, then 3.55s are hard to beat.
Just don't be picking on 360 A's, at under 36mph, or any teeners with 4.10s!
lol.
Also, with 3.55s, you will have to lower the Scr I described above. With the engine more heavily loaded now; 9.99 will likely be a half point too much. So again wait until the final Scr numbers are in.
You may have to go to a bigger cam to lose some cylinder pressure, to stay out of detonation.And that would be a shame.Cuz that would lead to a higher operating range, which leads to a wider operating powerband requirement or a higher TC or or or back to the 4.10s.Of course with the higher TC and extra power the skinny minneys out back won't stick anymore, and your 60fts will suck.Actually all of first gear will go up in smoke;So then you have to fix that, which usually means mini-tubs, a narrowed rear, relocated springs, and bigger meats with new wheels.
Hyup the joys of too big a cam..... binderdundat !! Maybe hanging wasn't that far off.........lol
One good thing about the bigger cam is that now it will have an idle attitude, and you get to deal with that whole tuning thing.
And the the teener manifolds may warp and crack, and you get to start over.I mean they were designed for what?, 195hp in 78.......
Click to expand...
My 65 Barracuda manifolds flow just fine with the RHS HEADS so no HEADERS NEEDED, They flow fine with duel exhaust , unless you have endless $ a good welder and tube bender and 500 hp. My engine is pretty much a little over stock 360 with a TSI TRANS is my key , and 3;91 sg < But the little squid head in his new Super Bee just had to TRY ME , he went home a very sad man , THANKS TO FABO and my ENGINE BUILDERS TRIX
I only have around 400 hp and its a L>A engine, RR knows his GAME , but that 268eh grind is good enough for your set up .
hagr81 my brothers and sisters . winstoninwisc/ BAD MEDICINE
 
AJ/FormS said:
With teener manifolds; you gotta go easy.
In a 64 you don't need much.
If you are picking a cam for attitude at idle, um, you may be sacrificing things to get it.
What cam? IDK, but:

If I had a 64 with manifolds, I would seriously bump up the compression, and put a teeny 340/360 type cam in it.And like said; put some springs on it, so it will rev to 5800 reliably. I would put monster pipes on it all the way to the back.
That's it.That's all.
Then I would put a 4.10 SG in the back, with some serious traction aiders.
And a 2400 to 2800TC.
Then I would go out and pound on it.
I would have the quickest zero to 60, teener car around.

I agree with Rusty, I would get a custom cam.

With a 5800 shift-rpm I could have some serious lift. I would be looking for a power peak around 4600 to 4800, and a power band of 2400rpm to match the automatic.With 4.10s second gear cruise at 30mph will be around 2350. No one will be suspecting anything. But when the hammer falls, the Rs will climb to 4000, and I will be blasting off to a 44mph shift, and second will be passing through 60 at 4700( right at the hp peak), on it's way to shift at 74mph. Then third is good to 107@5800
All that on a teeny 340/360-type cam.
I would pump the Dcr up to 8.0 to 8.5, which is in the detonation zone for 87; but my secret weapon would be in the tune, or 91gas. I would probably have 360 size valves in closed chamber teener heads, Like Magnums,with not much more than bowl clean-up, and flat-top pistons.
With a 262/270/114 cam, in at 110, the ICA would be 61*, and so;
Zero deck, 5cc eyebrows,8.9cc gasket ,closed chamber heads at 60cc,totals 73.9cc. The 3.95 holes make 664.47cc, so the Scr will be;9.99. Let's go with that.Easy. With a 9.99Scr, and 61*ICA, And a total chamber volume of 73.9cc, the Dcr will be 8.14, and the Cranking pressure might be 163psi.Close enough.
BTW that 262 cam might be a 218@050. That size cam could get by with less TC than earlier mentioned. That's "get-by". If you want quick off the line, you will need more TC, like 2800 to 3200, Ima thinking.
But If your pistons are already installed, then you will have to go with whatever they measure, down in the hole.and if you don't have closed chamber heads, well then compression,will not be your teeners strong suit. Not to panic, a bigger TC will get the engine past the soft spot real quick.
Back to the cam question;I still,DK
I put the above combo into a 71Demon back in the 70s. It was killer with a 340 cam,headers,LD340, and small 4bbl.I never opened the engine other than to pop in the 340 cam.....4.10s and 2800,will wake anything up!That's a starter gear of 10.05.
I ran a LC teener,with a stone stock long-block,and with a 10.97 starter gear, in my 68Barracuda; for 4 winters. Nothing but; headers, a factory iron intake, and a small TQ. It was TNT!
That theoretical cam above with 262/272/114, has only 39* overlap, so pretty tame. The exhaust doesn't close until74* ABDC, so there's plenty of energy still in the exhaust, to make nice popping noises.Put rectangular exhaust tips on it, and it might sound like a 340. Put the biggest pipes on it you dare, at least until the muffs. I used TTIs and dual 3 inchers all the way to the rear turn downs. Man that teener pulled.

Short of Supercharging, there is nothing that you can do to your teener that will be as effective as gears and a big TC. NoThing. 4.10s offer 50% more torque multiplication than 2.76s.. 50PerCent! That will feel like adding 159 cubic inches. Add to that a 2800TC, and that's another bunch of foot pounds. Your 64 will be launching like a BB;albeit a BB with stock equipment.Maybe it will feel like a stroker-BB;at least until it hits high gear.
This is how M/T Mustangs do it; A deep starter gear, well matched splits,and an O/D to cruise with.Sorry, with 4.10s; 60Mph will be around3250, so I guess you're staying local.
One more time: IDK what cam. I would wait until the Scr comes in.
Click to expand...



I BOW TO THE KING!!!!!!
 
273 is right on guys. Not looking to rebuild or reinvent this thing. Just put in the best choice cam within the parameters in my original post. That's it, nothing more than that. This is a street car, seeking decent giddy up and an occasional trip to the track for fun. My pocket book prohibits going hog wild. Just want to get a good cam and leave the engine alone.
 
i just put that cam in a 72 340, no attitude whatsoever at idle, might sound a little tougher in a 318? i wish i'd gone one step up to the 702
 
You have 2 issue with going to a larger duration cam with this engine for street use:
1) You have a fairly low compression ratio engine and if you put a bigger cam in it, it will drop the low RPM torque into the toilet. That is why the advice to go with a higher stall torque converter: that should be done to match a hotter cam; if you don't, the engine won't be ready with adequate torque to take off when the TC starts to lock up.
2) Your breathing with the stock heads and exhaust, is limited at the higher RPM's. So, again going with a larger duration cam will help, but it will still be somewhat choked off at high RPM's.

A milder cam like the Lunati Voodoo Cam 10200701LK will not hurt the low end torque for the street too much, and the better lift will help HP a bunch at higher RPM's. I might even go a step lower to the 100200700LK. New valve srpings should be put in with this. The idle may not have all that much attitude, but as has been said, that typically works against good low RPM performance.

And ditto.... put on a good exhaust! That will help the exhaust note.
 
well I'm down to the 701 or 02. To get a higher stall TC or not is a decision I need to answer
 
Thanks much! This is great food for thought. Performance is more important than the attitude of the idle. Great info and suggestions !

nm9stheham said:
You have 2 issue with going to a larger duration cam with this engine for street use:
1) You have a fairly low compression ratio engine and if you put a bigger cam in it, it will drop the low RPM torque into the toilet. That is why the advice to go with a higher stall torque converter: that should be done to match a hotter cam; if you don't, the engine won't be ready with adequate torque to take off when the TC starts to lock up.
2) Your breathing with the stock heads and exhaust, is limited at the higher RPM's. So, again going with a larger duration cam will help, but it will still be somewhat choked off at high RPM's.

A milder cam like the Lunati Voodoo Cam 10200701LK will not hurt the low end torque for the street too much, and the better lift will help HP a bunch at higher RPM's. I might even go a step lower to the 100200700LK. New valve srpings should be put in with this. The idle may not have all that much attitude, but as has been said, that typically works against good low RPM performance.

And ditto.... put on a good exhaust! That will help the exhaust note.
Click to expand...
 
Eworth said:
well I'm down to the 701 or 02. To get a higher stall TC or not is a decision I need to answer
Click to expand...
If you go with the 02, then IMHO, I'd plan on a TC change. And keep in mind, the higher the cam duration and stall speed, the more that it can adversely impact fuel mileage. That may or may not be important to you.

Guys tend to go with bigger cams, but it's not always better.
 
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