What did they (axles) come out of?

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circlepilot

circlepilot

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These axles were in a shortened (supposedly to "A Body specs.) banjo with a 489 carrier and 4:10 gears. I got the rear end some time ago and just now got to the point in my build to start with the drive train installation. It appears these axles have been shortened and re-splined. The banjo itself has been shorted to 49.5 from flange to flange, giving me a clearance of 2.250" only, between the flange and the leaf spring. Putting that (bummer) aside, a 5X4.5 Rally wheel or standard 5X4.5 wheel will not fit because of the "large" center hub on the axle. These axles seem massive compared to the A Body 5X4 axles, (I found out, are over an inch too long) I tried to install to match the 5X4 disc brakes on the front. I believe my use of this rear end has come to a halt because of tire and wheel selections. I got the rear end at the very beginning of my build, 1965 Barracuda, "assuming" everything would be cool. I knew from the on-set that the rear end had 11" brakes with 5X4.5 spacing. I knew (assumed) that could be changed. Now! After listening to my "self inflicted" dilemma, What the hell did these axles come out of and what type of wheel fit them?
Norm

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A-body 8 3/4's are 52 5/8" from housing flange to housing flange. So at 49.5" that housing is quite a bit shorter and will require shorter axles. A BBP axle for a stock width A-body 8 3/4 should be about 28" from flange to splined end. Yours would need to be about 26-7/16" for that housing (BBP). If you wanted to install SBP axles, they would need to be about 26-1/8" from flange to splined end.

Usually the BBP OE axles that can be re-splined are from C-bodies or trucks. But all the BBP axles have the same hub register diameter which is ~2.825". You can check that against the standard diameter for the bore on a BBP drum, Bendix advertises their BBP drum hub bore at 2.836". More Information for BENDIX PDR0182

Which brings me to the next point, if you're checking that rim against that axle without the drum installed on it you may not be getting an accurate idea of what will fit, because the drum will space the wheel out further from the axle register. It also looks like there's quite a bit of scale and paint on that axle register, so you may try cleaning it up with some sandpaper, installing the rim and then checking the wheel fit.

Changing from BBP to SBP is not as easy as just drilling new holes in the axle, as you're finding out. The axle register on the BBP axles are larger. The axle flange offset, the distance from the axle bearings to the face of the axle flange, is different (which is why the BBP and SBP axle lengths I listed above are different). Which means a different offset on the backing plates. So BBP and SBP brake stuff can not be interchanged.

If you want to use SBP axles with that housing, they'll need to be custom and roughly 26 1/8" long, but you should take your own measurements. You'll also need SBP brakes. If you're going to use those shortened BBP axles you'll need a BBP brake assembly. The BBP wheels you have should fit as long as the drums are installed.
 
72bluNblu said:
A-body 8 3/4's are 52 5/8" from housing flange to housing flange. So at 49.5" that housing is quite a bit shorter and will require shorter axles. A BBP axle for a stock width A-body 8 3/4 should be about 28" from flange to splined end. Yours would need to be about 26-7/16" for that housing (BBP). If you wanted to install SBP axles, they would need to be about 26-1/8" from flange to splined end.

Usually the BBP OE axles that can be re-splined are from C-bodies or trucks. But all the BBP axles have the same hub register diameter which is ~2.825". You can check that against the standard diameter for the bore on a BBP drum, Bendix advertises their BBP drum hub bore at 2.836". More Information for BENDIX PDR0182

Which brings me to the next point, if you're checking that rim against that axle without the drum installed on it you may not be getting an accurate idea of what will fit, because the drum will space the wheel out further from the axle register. It also looks like there's quite a bit of scale and paint on that axle register, so you may try cleaning it up with some sandpaper, installing the rim and then checking the wheel fit.

Changing from BBP to SBP is not as easy as just drilling new holes in the axle, as you're finding out. The axle register on the BBP axles are larger. The axle flange offset, the distance from the axle bearings to the face of the axle flange, is different (which is why the BBP and SBP axle lengths I listed above are different). Which means a different offset on the backing plates. So BBP and SBP brake stuff can not be interchanged.

If you want to use SBP axles with that housing, they'll need to be custom and roughly 26 1/8" long, but you should take your own measurements. You'll also need SBP brakes. If you're going to use those shortened BBP axles you'll need a BBP brake assembly. The BBP wheels you have should fit as long as the drums are installed.
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Thanks for the reply. I Forgot about the drums being installed, the 11" brake drums that came with the differential, are quite large and heavy. I'll try and check the fit with the drums installed. I believe there are 10" BBP drums available?
Norm
 
Measure from center of #1 stud to far edge of #3 stud, thats your bolt pattern, could be 4 3/4 3" Chevy bore. You can get your A's cut and resplined. Matter of fact, your A splines may be deep enough to cut and use without resplining? They only go in about an inch. I have some Chevy 4.75 Centerlines that have a huge bore.
 
circlepilot said:
Thanks for the reply. I Forgot about the drums being installed, the 11" brake drums that came with the differential, are quite large and heavy. I'll try and check the fit with the drums installed. I believe there are 10" BBP drums available?
Norm
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Yes, there are 10x2.5" drums available but you would need all new hardware and backing plates as well. I use or have used the 11x2.5" drums on all of my cars, they work well. Especially with the later 11.75" B/R body front disk brakes, which also work with 15" rims.

pishta said:
Measure from center of #1 stud to far edge of #3 stud, thats your bolt pattern, could be 4 3/4 3" Chevy bore. You can get your A's cut and resplined. Matter of fact, your A splines may be deep enough to cut and use without resplining? They only go in about an inch. I have some Chevy 4.75 Centerlines that have a huge bore.
Click to expand...

Depends on the axles and the length they need to be re-splined at. A lot of the OE Mopar axles neck down after the splines, which means they can't always be re-splined to a given length. C-body and truck axles are typically the best bet for re-splining.

The axles the OP has look like C body or truck axles to me, but it can be hard to tell from pictures. He also did say he put BBP rims on them and was only stopped by the center register, I would think that he would have noticed already if they were 5x4.75".
 
pishta said:
Measure from center of #1 stud to far edge of #3 stud, thats your bolt pattern, could be 4 3/4 3" Chevy bore. You can get your A's cut and resplined. Matter of fact, your A splines may be deep enough to cut and use without resplining? They only go in about an inch. I have some Chevy 4.75 Centerlines that have a huge bore.
Click to expand...
72bluNblu said:
Yes, there are 10x2.5" drums available but you would need all new hardware and backing plates as well. I use or have used the 11x2.5" drums on all of my cars, they work well. Especially with the later 11.75" B/R body front disk brakes, which also work with 15" rims.



Depends on the axles and the length they need to be re-splined at. A lot of the OE Mopar axles neck down after the splines, which means they can't always be re-splined to a given length. C-body and truck axles are typically the best bet for re-splining.

The axles the OP has look like C body or truck axles to me, but it can be hard to tell from pictures. He also did say he put BBP rims on them and was only stopped by the center register, I would think that he would have noticed already if they were 5x4.75".
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I have 10" 8 3/4 brake plates and hardware, no linings and drums yet. In the last picture (wheel using for reference) the wheel center is to small too fit the register, is it possible it's not a MOPAR wheel? BTW these are absolutely 5X4.5 BBP axles
Norm

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circlepilot said:
I have 10" 8 3/4 brake plates and hardware, no linings and drums yet. In the last picture (wheel using for reference) the wheel center is to small too fit the register, is it possible it's not a MOPAR wheel? BTW these are absolutely 5X4.5 BBP axles
Norm

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That doesn’t look like a mopar wheel to me, at least not in that picture.
 
Chevy centerbore on a Centerline Autodrag= 3 3/16, 4.75 bolt pattern.
 
pishta said:
Chevy centerbore on a Centerline Autodrag= 3 3/16, 4.75 bolt pattern.
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I don’t get it, why post all the Chevy stuff?

Clearly the axles are 5x4.5”. They’re also pretty clearly OE mopar axles, the register diameter is correct and the drum fits. There are plenty of rims out there that will fit the axles he has with the bolt pattern he’s got. Just not the rims he has, which may not even be mopar wheels.

No need to get Chevy wheels and change the bolt pattern.
 
DoctorDiff said:
That is an OEM Ford wheel with a small center bore.
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Thanks DoctorDiff. Well that explains the register difference...That wheel was one of four wheels I had bought out of NY (when I first started this project in 2014), as SBP Rally wheels. When I got them, I noticed right away that it was different than the other three. 5X4.5 and different design. I got a hold of the seller and he sent me the right wheel. He said he had grabbed the wrong one. I "assumed" that it was a Chrysler wheel. Well now I seem to be getting some where. And I thought I knew a lot. There are some real sharp people on here, I've learned a lot in the past six years. Thanks. :thankyou:
 
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