what do i got to do to make 500whp?

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taco502001

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here is all i know about it from what previous owner told me weiand g force intake, demon 850 mighty demon car, k&n x stream air filter with top, mallory electronic distributor, and 8mm plug wires, milodon deep oil pan, hooker fenderwall headers, forged rods and crank, 3.5" exhaust, 292/509 purple chrysler cam, march pulleys, 906 heads with hardened seats, 3 angle backcut valves with brinze guids, comp cams double spring retainers, and keepers, and ballanced bottom end

rebuilt 727 trans manual reverse valve body, tci line lock, 8 3/4 with 3:55
s, superstock springs, nascar torsion bars, frame ties, disc brakes, driveshaft loop,hayden super duty trans cover.


thats all i know about car, was going to get it dyno tuned also compression ratio is suppose to be 9.7 to 1
 
Major work. Lots and lots more Compersion, cam and head work, lots!
 
hemifish69 said:
so what do I have to do to make 10,000 hp?


buy 20 Hemis?


Taco, you didnt say the size of the engine..I'm assuming 440? You need to get soem decent port work on the heads, the cam will do it, but needs to be degreed if it hasnt, and some real compression. In your case, I'd get a set of 915s, and have them redone. Aim for at least 10.5:1 true compression, install 2.14/181 valves, and it will make 500 hp. It would be easier to do with a more up to date cam tho. That .509 is very peaky even with the right compression ratio.
 
yes its a 440 i was wondering if indy sr-1 heads, a better cam which i need help there with choices in that department, and maybe some better exhaust and tuning. would do it. i just dont know how well these heads were ported or how well they flow
 
You want 500 hp at the wheels ?? What kind of car is it ?? Do you have a goal on how fast you want to go ?? You can make 500 flywheel hp with the 509 cam but what convertor is in the car and whats it weigh as I see 3.55 gears ? You could also go with the Eddy heads as they work nice on 400 to 500 or more hp 440's. And you can do some mild port work to them and pick up more. You will need close to 600 flywheel hp to make 500 at the wheels. Thats why I ask how fast are you looking to go ? Because my sons Dart has run mid 11's with about 420 or so hp to the wheels. Ron
 
well honestly 500whp is just a goal i always set it high without expecting to get it but i set there so i keep working at it, its a 71 demon weighed 3100 lbs without driver, and i want to run high 10s low 11's i guess the faster the better, its a b&m 3000 stahl but if i remember its real tight starts locking at 1800 rpms if i remember right, i know with indy sr heads, a better cam, and some fine tuning and giggle juice oh yeah and highest compression that will be safe with a 100 shot i could make 500whp but i dont want to run giggle juice, i not really knowing what the bottom end is built like am worried but i believe its eagle forged rods, crank, and pistons and is ballanced
 
500 rwp is about 600 at the crank. That's not hard. But, you wont do it on factory heads, and be streetable. If it were me, I'd be looking into Indy SR-EZs, and a solid flat tappet cam. With 11.5:1 static, good quench, it could survive on pump gas tooling around town, and really haul with decent fuel. Have the heads cleaned up (no, not by Indy or Aerohead) and checked, in fact, I'd get them bare, and go from there. So, you're looking at new short block with good pistons, plus the heads..Should go about $8K give or take. On a side note, I'd rather use a 400 block for 600 hp or more. the rb wont survive as well, be harder to fit in the car, and be heavier. you'll also need some lower end reinforcment on the RB version.
 
why couldnt i keep the short block as it was rebuilt 2k miless ago and has complete forged and ballanced rotating assembly, install some sr heads, go 331/590 cam to utilize the heads, and just use stock bore, basically how much can i gain from worked 906 heads to sr heads and a larger cam on exactly what i got now
 
Your engine will run worse with those heads due to a big loss in velocity.

What is it with this obsession for a number?

Fail to plan,
Plan to fail.
 
nothing really i just wanted to see what people had to say get and get options. second of all i wanted see if this community mas more helpful then just a bunch of criticizing pricks, then 3rd of all with everyones experience see what cylinder heads and cams they suggest which i have only had a few and see what they say about indy heads see if they would help is all for 500whp i was looking at a power adder anyways just hate seeing small blocks making 409 rwhp n/a and me with my setup making maybe 425. and i also wanted to see if the guys who are making 500+ rwhp would chime in and say nope impossible withouth higher compression, damn good heads, and a power adder or you must go stroker kit. from sounds to make that those are my 2 options forced induction which nitrous is or a stroker engine
 
If I came off as a prick it's because I see and hear so many guys going for a number and not knowing what they are doing. What are you going to do with your number? In your own words, you want 500 RWH but know you will not achieve it. With that thinking I guarantee you will get less than less.

What do you want to do with your car? 500 hp takes a 500 hp tranny and rear end, and fuel system and on and on and on.
If you have alot of coin to throw at it great go for it. 4secondsflat.com is your place for parts and solid advise on whatever you want to do.

My signature says it.
 
i nvr said you were a criticizing prick i said thats what i wanted to see, and like i said with research 500rwhp is obtainable and i will work hard to get to get it in n/a and since its so hard its going to piss me off and thats why i will work harder to get it. I said i realize with this tci 727 trans, and custom large u joint driveshaft and etc, it can handle it. its just with a stock bore 440 setup i have right now it would take forced induction to get the 500rwhp understand now.
 
Taco, hopefully we're not the above mentionned "pricks"..lol. To continue, the problem with the RB block is in it's casting. There is a thin area at the top of the upper main saddle, that is prone to cracking under stresses of high compression, high rpm, and/or high horsepower levels. You can overcome this by partially filling the block with Hardblock, and running an oil cooler if it's a street car (because of lost cooling system capacity). So, the block is now stable. But, you need compression and rpms to make 600hp out of 440. That means bigger port heads (SRs and SR-EZs can do this, Edelbrocks can too, all 3 will need some kind of port cleanup or porting to ge there. -1s can do it easier, but are a larger port, so you begin to loose torque. That's where the compression comes in. you need good static ratios to make max power, and keep the torque up. To make the engine rev, and live, you'll need either aluminum main caps, or aluminum rods to help absord the shock the higher static ratios produce. What happens is, the caps begin to walk around... For a primarily race very little street engine, 600+ at the crank, I'd use a B block, for the larger bore, and run steel 2 bolt caps, and aluminum rods. An aftermarket crank, and good, light pistons. Static compression of 12.5-13:1, with a tight quench, and ported -1 Indys. Bush the lifter bores, run a medium size street roller (so the springs stay alive) cam, and a Victor intake. You dont take a stock short block, and safely run that kind of power. That includes forced induction and NOS use. You can pump all the happy gas you want into a 906 headed 440, but eventually, the lower end will explode. And by that, I mean, if the pistons dont crack, and the caps can stay in place (which i doubt) and it doesnt mess up some bearings or bend a rod, it will over time, develop cracks in the main saddles, which will end up fracturing off the bores..That's a really big mess, as nothing including the cam ends up being able to be re-used. I dont recommend using a factory block of any kind over 650 hp. That's serious power, and takes a serious budget to do well, consistantly, and reliably. It is MUCH easier to add stroke, and expand the size. Making 1.2 hp per inch in a 496, can be made with pump gas, be streetable, and pull a taller gear with mountains of torque, than making 1.4hp per inch from a 440. The trick is the stroke. more leverage means more usable power. You dont need the light rods, or superlite pistons, or block fill, because the power is made at a lower rpm, so the block doesnt have to deal with the added stresses of high revs. Of course, to get thee 800hp and higher levels, all that stuff will need to be done on a stroker too..lol. So how fast did you want to go again?
 
high 10s low 11s, ok yeah all i know its a stock casting yes, as far as stock long block no way in hell is it stock, the 906 heads i know have had some work done to them how much dont know, the intake, and carb and headers i got i think will work as the intake is a good single plane and the headers are 2". if i am looking at making 500 n/a hp its block filler, aluminum rods and pistons which i know i have they are eagles, more rpm and higher compression so i will leave the engine as is for a while now till i can get a 500 stroker shortblock and then get my 906 heads worked and throw them on there i am sure i can find someone who can make the 906 heads flow as well as a indy srs b1heads.com . so i think my assembly is built strong enough to handle giggle gas at least 100shot anyways.

but first things first for me what i was going to do was dyno tune, take to track and tune and get all my baselines. but yeah this 440 i got isnt just a stock 440 with the intake and crap bolted on everything was rebuilt 2k miles ago, with a forged ballanced bottom end, and some worked 906 heads. but no you arent the pricks i was talking about and i appreciate the help it just seems a 600hp 440 involves to much riding the thin red line of explosion. when i get the money and get ready i will get a stroker kit
 
also i know it does have an oil cooler i believe maybe its a trans cooler my mind is running low on fuel right now need more dew. umm also plans this winter get timing set whats a good timing set. get the carb tuned, and add a new style fuse panel and this stuff doesnt help performance just makes car run better and helps with safety in long run. new mopar valve covers etc... might take heads and intake off get them ported polished bench flowed and intake port matched etc...
 
The best place to start is see what you got now..you already know that. It's the cheapest way too..lol. Forged pistons and balancing does not make a HP engine, that's factoru stuff, just a littel stronger..If it's got better rods, so much the better. Truthfully, nobody will be able to get 906s to flow as well as any Indy castings, and few can get them as good as Edelbrocks. The cars that ran well inb the past did it with cam size and compression, loosing drivability. If it were me, I would find a set of 915s to have done up. At least you can get some decent squeeze from them, and they acn run almost with Edelbrocks when ported properly, for about $400 less. The engine oil cooler takes the place of the water filled cooling jackets at the bottom of the block. You dont fill it all the way..only 1/2 way up. Oil is a major source of cooling too, so you plumb in an external cooler to run a filled block on the street (and still limited street). I use Comp Cams billet timing sets..because I've seen trouble with the Cloyes' timing gears falling apart..Not on Mopars, but same compoany ,I figure it's only a matter of time before the dodge stuff sells enough to get into the bad product too....If you're looking to improve things, Buy the Moroso 11" degree wheel, and degree that MP cam..I'm sure it's off. Also, Dont know what a G force looks like, but if you see an old Holley Street Dominator intake at a swap, stick that on there too. Also, get as much compression as you can..If the engine was rebuilt, there's a good chance it has Felpro blue head gaskets..replace them with the MP steelies.
 
taco502001 said:
high 10s low 11s, ok yeah all i know its a stock casting yes, as far as stock long block no way in hell is it stock, the 906 heads i know have had some work done to them how much dont know, the intake, and carb and headers i got i think will work as the intake is a good single plane and the headers are 2". if i am looking at making 500 n/a hp its block filler, aluminum rods and pistons which i know i have they are eagles, more rpm and higher compression so i will leave the engine as is for a while now till i can get a 500 stroker shortblock and then get my 906 heads worked and throw them on there i am sure i can find someone who can make the 906 heads flow as well as a indy srs b1heads.com . so i think my assembly is built strong enough to handle giggle gas at least 100shot anyways.

but first things first for me what i was going to do was dyno tune, take to track and tune and get all my baselines. but yeah this 440 i got isnt just a stock 440 with the intake and crap bolted on everything was rebuilt 2k miles ago, with a forged ballanced bottom end, and some worked 906 heads. but no you arent the pricks i was talking about and i appreciate the help it just seems a 600hp 440 involves to much riding the thin red line of explosion. when i get the money and get ready i will get a stroker kit

Taco, if 10.9s, 11.0s is your goal, it want take that much to get there, i'm running a 451, i don't know what your cars weighs, mine is 3070 with me, i believe those 906s in mild form will get you there, i have ross flat tops, there .009 below deck, .039 gaskets, the heads are stock, just a good valve job, there about 85cc, i have no quench to speek of (about .080 or more). my comp is 10.2, 250/256 comp solid, 543/529 lift, M1 single, 750 carb, according to some calculators, i have 420-430 RWHP, i run 10.9s, 11.0s at 121, with a best of [email protected] mph. shifting at 5800. i'm having my heads done for about 700.00, there going to back cut the valves and rework them and mill about .050 off. the 906s in my opinion are not to shabby for what they are, they say the 451 is quicker then the 440, but i still think you can acheive that goal with a well thought out plan for your 440 with mild components, if you can get the weight down to 3000 lbs with you, you should have no problem, thats just my 2 cents. Oh, you will need some more gear back there, like 411s.
 
I have a tendency to come off as a prick. Just didn't see enough info in the first post and thought you would come back with either an insult or more info. sorry. ps I'm more of an engine assembler than somebody who can max out a combo. I'm sure I've picked the wrong engine parts for mine and probably am better than 20-30% below what this thing should be doing. I'm going to go stare at my avatar for awhile. :poke:
 
ps, did you ever notice if you stare at stripes too long you can see them when you close your eyes?
 
i just realized, maybe my hemispherical obsession extends to more than the engine. Hemispherical... half of a sphere.... big half-round things... blue and white striped.... :grin:
 
well guys here is plan for engine setup as of now since i talked to previous owner is balanced and blueprinted i think he said something, eagle rods and crank, ross or srp pistons?, but 2k miles on it heres a plan 150 shot of nitorus a 1 gallon fuel cell, with seperate fuel system including holley blue pump, fuel pressure safety switch, window switch, all gauges neccesary. a blanket, heater, and blowdown tube
 
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