What is a muscle car
- Thread starter kris66cuda
- Start date
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cudavert
DARTAHOLIC
Apparently, Hemi Cudas WEREN'T Muscle Cars! Who knew?! :wack:
seabee
Well-Known Member
Here's a breakdown on Musclecarclub.com of which models and configurations they consider to be Muscle cars.
I agree with the list, which is odd in its self.
Yep! Challenger! Pony car!
Corvette, sports car.
Hot rod holds two def's in the slang book. The one above is good to cover it in a general manor while the old true meaning comes from the time when you mixed and matched parts to get what your after. IE: Ford body, olds rear, Crysler trans etc.....
Yep! Challenger! Pony car!
Corvette, sports car.
Hot rod holds two def's in the slang book. The one above is good to cover it in a general manor while the old true meaning comes from the time when you mixed and matched parts to get what your after. IE: Ford body, olds rear, Crysler trans etc.....
Apparently, Hemi Cudas WEREN'T Muscle Cars! Who knew?! :wack:
I think they were just examples...
The direct link...........
http://musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-definition.shtml
http://musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-definition.shtml
jabdusty57
Well-Known Member
That's a great list but what's up with this comment: "Cudas with 340s are generally not considered muscle cars" ???
Thanks for link....
Yea, dont quite get it- "Cudas with 340s are generally not considered muscle cars" but Dusters with 340's are????
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Only the Facebook crowd would call a Neon or a Civic a musclecar.
Kinda like they think they are a guitar player because they play Rockband on thier game console.
Kinda like they think they are a guitar player because they play Rockband on thier game console.
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
"Pony Car" is classically associated with the cars used in Trans Am racing. Short trunk, long hood, was used in Trans Am...... More than likely, it's a Pony car.
The small sports car with a big engine was the pony car. Duster does t make the list because it is a compact class car.
Everything I read said the origin of the term "Pony Car" is named after the Ford Mustang, the first car of this type... is this correct?
seabee
Well-Known Member
From Wiki:
The 1964 Mustang provided the template for the new class of automobiles.[7][8] The term itself "was coined by Dennis Shattuck, who was editor of Car Life magazine" at the time.[9] The term "originates from the equestrian sounding Ford Mustang",[2] and may also refer to the Ford Mustang's logo (a galloping pony).
Although the Mustang was based on the platform of the Falcon, it had a unique body (offered as a hardtop coupé and a convertible) with distinctive, "long hood, short deck" proportions. In basic form it was mechanically mundane, with a 170 cu in (2.8 L) six-cylinder engine coupled to a three-speed manual transmission. It carried an attractive base price of US$2,368 that included bucket seats, carpeting, floor shifter, sport steering wheel, and full wheel covers. The Mustang also had an extensive option list offering a range of V8 engines, Cruise-O-Matic automatic transmission or four-speed manual gearbox, radios, air conditioning, power steering, and other accessories.[10] A V8 Mustang with all available options would cost about 60% more than a basic model with a six-cylinder engine, which made it an extremely profitable model for Ford.[11]
The requirements for these two-door, four passenger capacity models were therefore set:[12][13]
Stylish and sporty styling that included "long hoods, short decks, and open mouths"
Assembled from "off-the-shelf" mass production components
Affordable base price (under $2,500 in 1965 dollar value)
Wide range of options to individualize each car
Youth-oriented marketing and advertising.
While most of the pony cars offered more powerful engines and performance packages, enough to qualify some into muscle car territory, a substantial number were sold with six-cylinder engines or ordinary V8s.[14] For the most part, the high-performance models saw limited sales and were largely limited to drag racing, road racing, or racing homologation purposes.
/6 Matt
30 Degrees Crooked
I remember a magazine article a few years ago that accidentally made a great definition of the term muscle car.
They pit a '70 440 4-speed Charger against a new one. The old Charger had non power brakes or steering.
They said something to the effect of (in reference to the slalom course) "it was a real workout manipulating the car through the course fighting the heavy duty clutch and lack of power brakes while muscling the steering wheel left to right and slaming the pistol grip into gear. Something about the shifter commands the control of the car. They were called muscle cars because they required and built serious muscle to drive them."
They pit a '70 440 4-speed Charger against a new one. The old Charger had non power brakes or steering.
They said something to the effect of (in reference to the slalom course) "it was a real workout manipulating the car through the course fighting the heavy duty clutch and lack of power brakes while muscling the steering wheel left to right and slaming the pistol grip into gear. Something about the shifter commands the control of the car. They were called muscle cars because they required and built serious muscle to drive them."
seabee
Well-Known Member
When people ask if I have power steering or brakes I say yes and point to my forearms and calves.
Yes yes yes yes yes, OMFinGod yes!
Muad'Dib15
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't consider my barracuda to be a muscle car. It really doesn't take that much effort to drive it. I'd call mine a less refined sports coupe. It's not a sport car even though 99% of the time I drive around with the back seat down so it looks like a 2 seater. (I do that with my caprice wagon too. 
The way back seat is completely folded down and the back seat back is flipped forward)
My car isn't a sports car, or a pony car in the sense that I think of it. It's a sports car (in the works, not quite there yet) that happens to have 5 seats.
The way back seat is completely folded down and the back seat back is flipped forward)My car isn't a sports car, or a pony car in the sense that I think of it. It's a sports car (in the works, not quite there yet) that happens to have 5 seats.
afbill
FABO World Ambassador
Funny you should bring up the Neon SRT as a muscle car or not. When that car came out my dad worked for a Dodge dealership and he went to a Chrysler sponsered "meet and greet", so to speak, for the car. They let them drive the car on a closed course. Being an old muscle car guy my dad was actually pretty impressed with the car. As far as a car in the tuner world it kicked *** out of the factory, unlike other tuners and it dosen't take a lot to make it even better. Basically it was race ready just like the Chrysler muscle cars of old. Where Chrysler screwed up is that they marketed it to middle age muscle car guys from the 60s and 70s....ie middle age men. They misunderstood the market, marketed to the wrong crowd and one of the best factory tuners went by the wayside.
Frankie
Member #9641
Well, the First Mustang, and the First Barracuda were both released in 1964.
Yes, the Mustang is THE pony car. So is the Barracuda and the Camaro, in '67. The were the "Trans Am Racers" of the day, there were others too, The Cougar, and there was an AMC entry, too.
jaimus
Old School ASE Gold
Ummm,...Something that has "real" muscle,...Identifiable by a nicely tuned "count every cylinder at idle" V8 Exhaust,...Something that scares little kids on startup,...A car with a clutch that when properly used, firmely plants yer *** cheeks into the seat,...Accompanied by the sound of many cubic feet of air being sucked through the intake,...
A Hondota or Mazduzu or a Neon with a fartcan exhaust???.....I think not...
A Hondota or Mazduzu or a Neon with a fartcan exhaust???.....I think not...
X2 :burnout:
My definition, for what it's worth:
Muscle Car: An American-made production car manufactured between the years of 1955 and 1975 designed (and usually modified) for fast acceleration; usually involves a V8 engine with a displacement over 300ci...
This ropes in many cars due to their inclusion of a "performance" package back in those years.... I.e. the Satellite and Sat Wagon both count because of the Sport Satellite, Roadrunner, and GTX; the A-bodies because of their 340 and 360 packages, the Coronet and Coronet wagon are included due to the Superbee, etc etc etc...
This way, it EXCLUDES crap like the Neon, which is mostly of foreign origin anyway, the Shelby Omnis (though quick as hell, they are not a "muscle car"), etc., but INCLUDE some of the more muscly designs. Just because your car is a year too old or originally came with a /6 doesn't mean it's not a muscle... The original definition excluded the non-specifically-designed faster cars, but as the years go by and the cars become more and more rare, I think the definition should include all of a certain era, since most of the engines are, by today's standards, quite "muscular..." After all, a '57 Cadillac powered by even the biggest baddest Honda I4 is going to take six weeks to hit 30mph. ;)
^ Owners of these shop at the very back of the parts stores or online, and usually have their own shops where they do pro-level work.
Tuners: Any car of foreign manufacture, badging, or design, usually utilizing an I4 or V6 engine, usually with some sort of forced induction, specifically designed for "sport" driving and specifically modified for speed and agility.
^ Owners of these shop online at Japanese websites. Some even read and speak Japanese! Often have access to a shop of some sort either through employment or family.
((More on low-displacement imports at the bottom of the list))
Sports Cars: Any car excluding muscle cars and supercars that are manufactured and advertised to be fast and/or agile with a sporty look. Usually a 2-door coupe or hatchback, but can also include 4-door coupes, hatchbacks, and sedans.
^ Owners of these shop at the dealership when they visit their car and take it out of the shop for a drive every six months or so. Usually cry themselves to sleep, but brag all day about the superiority of "German Engineering..." They do not dare modify them in any way, for fear that they'll both ruin the resale value AND cause even more mechanical problems.
Hot-Rod: Any car, usually 1920's to early 1950's specifically modified for speed and show. (I.e. T-buckets, Willy's Coupes, 40's Chevy trucks, etc)...
^ Owners of these shop next to the Muscle car guys. They are nearly one in the same. Again, usually have their own shop.
Rat Rod: See also Hot Rod, but without the concern for bodywork, paint, chrome, or any other "pretty" aesthetics. Instead, these vehicles substitute "pretty" aesthetics for a more "business" aesthetic... Further, these vehicles do not necessarily have to be old vehicles, and usually are a "grab bag" of parts made to work with each other...
Non-old Rat rod:
^ These guys are sort of an intermediary or diplomat between the Hot-Rod and Muscle car guys and the Lowrider guys... They are more or less a Hot-rod guy with a focus moreso on speed and personality than pretty paintjobs, and admire intuitive designs and ingenious contraptions which the Mini-truckers are known for.
Supercar: A vehicle designed for insane speeds and acceleration, above and beyond most other production or even modified cars. These usually have a VERY high price tag and are usually wedge-shaped. Protip: NEVER refer to the Fiero or DeLorean DMC-12 as "supercars." Their designers wanted them to be the "supercar for the average guy," and they ended up just being generic 80's crap.
^ These guys have their paid servants do all their shopping because the car's owner is simply far too well-to-do to be seen in any place as dirty and unwashed as an auto parts store!! Seriously, grease SO clashes with my 600-dollar Louis-Vuitton polo and 50,000-dollar Rolex. They do not DARE modify their vehicles, for fear that the IRS will slap them with even BIGGER fees when they come to repossess everything for failure to pay...
Lowrider: Any non-Rat Rod CAR specifically designed with suspension that is adjustable on-demand, usually through the use of hydraulics. This vehicle MUST sit approximately 3" off the ground or lower at its lowest point. A stigma of Mexican-American culture and also African-American Gang culture...
^ These guys usually shop at parts stores in "da hood," or "la raza," depending on which neighborhood they are from. They also usually have a "cousin" that is selling the parts you need.... Usually can be found wrenching away in a garage, back yard, or driveway.
Mini-truck: See Lowrider, except applied mainly to small import pickups but also when larger full-size or even 1-ton duallies are modified in such a manner. The main difference, technologically, is that mini-trucks are often powered by an airbag suspension, more designed for a smoother adjustment of the ride height as opposed to a lowrider's hydraulic system's jerky jumping motion.
Non-Import (1-ton) Mini-truck:
^ These guys usually shop online or at hardware or plumbing stores, and are usually VERY skilled with a welder and frame work, as frame notches and bag setups can get exceedingly intricate and well-designed!! They are like the Lowrider in that they are not afraid to build a mini-truck in a garage, but often find themselves utilizing shops with a more complete tool inventory for more intricate work.
Ricer: Any 4-cylinder or basemodel foreign-designed car (usually an import, but can also be "domestics" such as the Neon, Cavalier, Cobalt, Escort, etc) modified solely for outlandish looks, usually following the scheme of cars found in "Fast and Furious" movies. These cars usually have more pounds of fiberglass, vinyl, and bondo than they do horsepower. Further, they usually sport neon lighting and performance part company stickers regardless of whether or not the company's parts are in use on the vehicle in question. These vehicles can usually be quickly identified by their ugly catfish-looking and almost always incomplete or non-matching aftermarket bodykits and outrageous rear-wheel-drive-designed wings on front-wheel-drive cars... The owners are usually douchenozzles and will be more than happy to race you and lose just so they can make up bullshit excuses such as "I missed 3rd gear" or "my clutch is slipping..." They want all the looks and sounds (fake turbo sound muffler tips, etc) of an expensive and extensively-modified car, without any of the actual work.
^ These guys shop at the very FRONT of the auto parts stores, and are usually seen purchasing stick-on scoops, ornaments, and emblems, and lights for EVERYTHING... They do not DARE pop the hood unless they are going to spraypaint something in a neon or day-glo color. Any "parts" they add to the car are almost always adhesive-backed.
:glasses7:
- CK
Muscle Car: An American-made production car manufactured between the years of 1955 and 1975 designed (and usually modified) for fast acceleration; usually involves a V8 engine with a displacement over 300ci...
This ropes in many cars due to their inclusion of a "performance" package back in those years.... I.e. the Satellite and Sat Wagon both count because of the Sport Satellite, Roadrunner, and GTX; the A-bodies because of their 340 and 360 packages, the Coronet and Coronet wagon are included due to the Superbee, etc etc etc...
This way, it EXCLUDES crap like the Neon, which is mostly of foreign origin anyway, the Shelby Omnis (though quick as hell, they are not a "muscle car"), etc., but INCLUDE some of the more muscly designs. Just because your car is a year too old or originally came with a /6 doesn't mean it's not a muscle... The original definition excluded the non-specifically-designed faster cars, but as the years go by and the cars become more and more rare, I think the definition should include all of a certain era, since most of the engines are, by today's standards, quite "muscular..." After all, a '57 Cadillac powered by even the biggest baddest Honda I4 is going to take six weeks to hit 30mph. ;)
^ Owners of these shop at the very back of the parts stores or online, and usually have their own shops where they do pro-level work.
Tuners: Any car of foreign manufacture, badging, or design, usually utilizing an I4 or V6 engine, usually with some sort of forced induction, specifically designed for "sport" driving and specifically modified for speed and agility.
^ Owners of these shop online at Japanese websites. Some even read and speak Japanese! Often have access to a shop of some sort either through employment or family.
((More on low-displacement imports at the bottom of the list))
Sports Cars: Any car excluding muscle cars and supercars that are manufactured and advertised to be fast and/or agile with a sporty look. Usually a 2-door coupe or hatchback, but can also include 4-door coupes, hatchbacks, and sedans.
^ Owners of these shop at the dealership when they visit their car and take it out of the shop for a drive every six months or so. Usually cry themselves to sleep, but brag all day about the superiority of "German Engineering..." They do not dare modify them in any way, for fear that they'll both ruin the resale value AND cause even more mechanical problems.
Hot-Rod: Any car, usually 1920's to early 1950's specifically modified for speed and show. (I.e. T-buckets, Willy's Coupes, 40's Chevy trucks, etc)...
^ Owners of these shop next to the Muscle car guys. They are nearly one in the same. Again, usually have their own shop.
Rat Rod: See also Hot Rod, but without the concern for bodywork, paint, chrome, or any other "pretty" aesthetics. Instead, these vehicles substitute "pretty" aesthetics for a more "business" aesthetic... Further, these vehicles do not necessarily have to be old vehicles, and usually are a "grab bag" of parts made to work with each other...
Non-old Rat rod:
^ These guys are sort of an intermediary or diplomat between the Hot-Rod and Muscle car guys and the Lowrider guys... They are more or less a Hot-rod guy with a focus moreso on speed and personality than pretty paintjobs, and admire intuitive designs and ingenious contraptions which the Mini-truckers are known for.
Supercar: A vehicle designed for insane speeds and acceleration, above and beyond most other production or even modified cars. These usually have a VERY high price tag and are usually wedge-shaped. Protip: NEVER refer to the Fiero or DeLorean DMC-12 as "supercars." Their designers wanted them to be the "supercar for the average guy," and they ended up just being generic 80's crap.
^ These guys have their paid servants do all their shopping because the car's owner is simply far too well-to-do to be seen in any place as dirty and unwashed as an auto parts store!! Seriously, grease SO clashes with my 600-dollar Louis-Vuitton polo and 50,000-dollar Rolex. They do not DARE modify their vehicles, for fear that the IRS will slap them with even BIGGER fees when they come to repossess everything for failure to pay...
Lowrider: Any non-Rat Rod CAR specifically designed with suspension that is adjustable on-demand, usually through the use of hydraulics. This vehicle MUST sit approximately 3" off the ground or lower at its lowest point. A stigma of Mexican-American culture and also African-American Gang culture...
^ These guys usually shop at parts stores in "da hood," or "la raza," depending on which neighborhood they are from. They also usually have a "cousin" that is selling the parts you need.... Usually can be found wrenching away in a garage, back yard, or driveway.
Mini-truck: See Lowrider, except applied mainly to small import pickups but also when larger full-size or even 1-ton duallies are modified in such a manner. The main difference, technologically, is that mini-trucks are often powered by an airbag suspension, more designed for a smoother adjustment of the ride height as opposed to a lowrider's hydraulic system's jerky jumping motion.
Non-Import (1-ton) Mini-truck:
^ These guys usually shop online or at hardware or plumbing stores, and are usually VERY skilled with a welder and frame work, as frame notches and bag setups can get exceedingly intricate and well-designed!! They are like the Lowrider in that they are not afraid to build a mini-truck in a garage, but often find themselves utilizing shops with a more complete tool inventory for more intricate work.
Ricer: Any 4-cylinder or basemodel foreign-designed car (usually an import, but can also be "domestics" such as the Neon, Cavalier, Cobalt, Escort, etc) modified solely for outlandish looks, usually following the scheme of cars found in "Fast and Furious" movies. These cars usually have more pounds of fiberglass, vinyl, and bondo than they do horsepower. Further, they usually sport neon lighting and performance part company stickers regardless of whether or not the company's parts are in use on the vehicle in question. These vehicles can usually be quickly identified by their ugly catfish-looking and almost always incomplete or non-matching aftermarket bodykits and outrageous rear-wheel-drive-designed wings on front-wheel-drive cars... The owners are usually douchenozzles and will be more than happy to race you and lose just so they can make up bullshit excuses such as "I missed 3rd gear" or "my clutch is slipping..." They want all the looks and sounds (fake turbo sound muffler tips, etc) of an expensive and extensively-modified car, without any of the actual work.
^ These guys shop at the very FRONT of the auto parts stores, and are usually seen purchasing stick-on scoops, ornaments, and emblems, and lights for EVERYTHING... They do not DARE pop the hood unless they are going to spraypaint something in a neon or day-glo color. Any "parts" they add to the car are almost always adhesive-backed.
:glasses7:
- CK
95teetee
Well-Known Member
the true definition of 'pony car' is the short decklid/long hood layout. So, yes, the 'stang/cramaro/chally style falls under the ponycar designation.
Nowadays, to the younger people, the term 'musclecar' usually refers to a cool looking car from before they were born lol. Both my '73 318 Scamp and my Duster would be considered musclecars to teenagers (and, when my Duster had the 340 in it, it sure as hell fit in there too
)I think what was considered a musclecar has changed since they were actually making musclecars, too- a lot of cars that weren't considered musclecars when they rolled off the line would be so-called now. Even by us older folks lol.
And an SRT-4 could have 1500 horsepower and it still wouldn't be a musclecar.
daredevil
Well-Known Member
OMG! If you got one you know it.My definition,a car it takes muscle to hold on to when you nail it. This wasnt a muscle car but it trys to be.
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