What rocker arms should I buy?

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dgully

dgully

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Ok, a brief summary, I have a 340 stroked to 416, roller hyd lifters, just received my edelbrock heads, now searching for info on roller rockers. Any recommendation? Was looking a Hughes racing rockers. Any direction is appreciated.
Thanks guys
 
Hughes roller rockers are nice .

Comp cams are nice also .

One thing that I have heard people talk about is some roller rockers for sb mopar have poor geometry .
I'm sure others can expand on this .
Jim
 
jimmer said:
Hughes roller rockers are nice .

Comp cams are nice also .

One thing that I have heard people talk about is some roller rockers for sb mopar have poor geometry .
I'm sure others can expand on this .
Jim
Click to expand...
These are the ones you want, the geometry is dead on, I have Harland Sharps and while they are good rockers they dont line up near as good and the Hughes rockers do..
 
I;ve been running the Comp Pro Magnums for 6 seasons excellent pieces..Harland sharp are very nice(pricey) too...
 
Does NOT matter what rocker you buy, you need to call B3 racing engines and have him help you sort out the geometry.


The chance of having correct geometry with any rocker, on any particular head, is a zillion to one.

If it happens get you a lottery ticket. FAST. Because you are on a hot streak.
 
Was thinking of going with 1:6 Hughes, alittle spendy for me but the way it sounds is its worth it.

Thanks for the inputs
 
Well initially id assume they are garbage, but again...on a street build? Idk? Guys used to go nuts for the cranes, and those weren't even bearing rockers.
I guess I misread the way he meant the geometry comment?. Just not sure what magic offering someone would have to correct pushrod geometry. beyond a length checker. feel free to enlighten me. Im always looking to learn something!


stroked340 said:
Its NOT the rockers..its the valvetrain design from the factory..$130.00 for a set or roller rockers how good can they be..
Click to expand...
 
dgully said:
Was thinking of going with 1:6 Hughes, alittle spendy for me but the way it sounds is its worth it.

Thanks for the inputs
Click to expand...


We all know I HATE needle bearings on a reciprocating shaft.

If you spend some time on the phone with Mike at B3 racing engines he will help you get your geometry correct. I don't care WHOSE rockers you buy, you will need to correct the geometry on any of them. I would call Mike and ask him about the $140.00 rockers on flea bay. He probably knows who is making them. And he can tell you if they are ok in your application. I would think if you ain't running down Jason Line they will be fine IF you correct the geometry.

It ain't rocket surgery.
 
yellow rose said:
We all know I HATE needle bearings on a reciprocating shaft.

If you spend some time on the phone with Mike at B3 racing engines he will help you get your geometry correct. I don't care WHOSE rockers you buy, you will need to correct the geometry on any of them. I would call Mike and ask him about the $140.00 rockers on flea bay. He probably knows who is making them. And he can tell you if they are ok in your application. I would think if you ain't running down Jason Line they will be fine IF you correct the geometry.

It ain't rocket surgery.
Click to expand...
Again with the rocket appliances...lol

What does one do to correct this "factory imperfect" pushrod geometry? As I have run aluminum bodied rockers before....and used a pushrod length checker and all was well. I didnt have any overly bad pushrod angles.

So...say im standing over my car, with my new big money Hughes or Harland sharps..... I now make the phone call you suggest, and somehow someone on the other line can"fix" the factory pushrod angles?

Help me understand this please. I must be missing something
 
Iam lost with this talk of "geometry", please enlighten me on this, before I go spend money on rockers
 
It is not the pushrod angles. It is the angle of the rocker tip to the valve stem. The rocker tip moves in an arc, and the valve obviously does not. The arc'd motion of the rocker tip has 2 parts to its motion: 1 part is along the valve stem axis (which does what we want) and the other part is sideways to the valve stem axis (which does us no good in opening the valve). Minimizing the sideways part of the rocker tip motion means that you have minimized variations in speed of the valve motion relative to the valve speed that designed into the cam; having large variations in valve speed from that designed into the cam when you are pushing the engine to high RPM's causes valve float and other related issues.

The best GENERAL setup is where the arc of the rocker tips movement happens to be perfectly in line with the axis of the valve AT the midpoint of the valve lift. This will minimize the valve speed variations from the valve speed designed into the cam.

NOW, is it necessary? Here is when it is important IMHO:
- At high valve lifts
- At high RPM's
So if you are pushing 6-8k RPM a lot, yes. If pushing .600 lift, I would think so. If under 6k and .500" lift, I would not bother. If the scrub pattern of the rocker tip has small width, then you are fine.

Some setups work fine. I got some eBay PRW AL rockers and the geomtery was pretty darned good on Edlebrock heads (small width scrub), and this is a street engine with .500" lift and will rarely see 6k, so it was pointless to spend $$ on anything. Yellow Rose builds engines that go high RPM's and HP's and lifts all the time, so it makes sense there.
 
Good write up.

Dgully, as cast the rockers may be moved upwards with shims to help this issue. Correct length pushrods are a must.

If your building a general purpose engine, there's no big worry. The bigger the lift the bigger the issue.
 
I plan on getting custom push rods made, so this engine being just a hot street engine, should I just stick with. 1:5-1 or 1:6-1 rockers?
 
I would just go with 1.5 rockers and get the cam with the lift you need. I have edelbrock heads on my small block and use the Hughes rockers. They run dead center on the valves.
 
Caco2120 said:
How good/bad could these be?
If the claim above is all aftermarket rockers period have bad geometry...?...
Mopar Chrysler SB 318 340 360 1.6 Ratio Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms & Shafts
Click to expand...


This popped into my head when I was reading this page today.

Secrets to Dialing in a Mopar Valvetrain - Horsepower Monster

Last paragraph on the page:

Here’s an example of why going cheap can cost you in the long run. These are a set of no-name rockers purchased off a certain internet auction site that shall remain unnamed. The rocker arms are too short, so even though there are thick shims underneath the rocker shaft, there’s no way to get the roller tip centered over the top of the valve stem. This engine will run, but the misaligned rockers will side-load the valves.
 
Caco2120 said:
Again with the rocket appliances...lol

What does one do to correct this "factory imperfect" pushrod geometry? As I have run aluminum bodied rockers before....and used a pushrod length checker and all was well. I didnt have any overly bad pushrod angles.

So...say im standing over my car, with my new big money Hughes or Harland sharps..... I now make the phone call you suggest, and somehow someone on the other line can"fix" the factory pushrod angles?

Help me understand this please. I must be missing something
Click to expand...


Did you go to B3 racing engines web site? I really don't care if the wipe pattern is centered over the valve. I want the wipe pattern as NARROW as possible.

When you change ONE component, just ONE in the valve train from OE, you are affecting geometry and you CANT fix it with pushrod length. Unless you are working on a stud mounted system. At that point, you are beyond help!

Anyway, most guys change cams (is the base circle the same diameter?), did you change lift? Now that is TWO changes you made. Did you change the length ove the valve? THREE changes. Now change the rocker arm. That is FOUR changes. You have to correct for all these changes, even if it's just ONE change. Mike has come up with the best, least expensive system to correct for this. I used to do it with blocks and milling the stands off. Royal PITA. The B3 system is way easier and cheaper.

Chrysler guys need to LEARN geometry. For too many years guys have been throwing parts at stuff with no idea what they were doing.

All you have to do is look at the W2 valve system and see what Chrysler did when they went to longer valves. It's the same principle.
 
I went with Hughes 1:5-1 roller rockers, actually got them on clearance since they were stamped wrong, I figured I'd go with him since I've bought the cam and lifters there. I did go on to B3 web, so I know what to look for when installing the rockers
 
Mopar geometry is crap from the factory..now saying this is it going to really going to affect the performance..to a certain point i think NOT.been running Comp magnum rollers on both my 416 and 360 for 6 seasons not one valvetrain failure or problem..read the article seems to me they're trying to say only THEIR rockers arms work correctly which is "bullshit" just trying to sell rocker arms!!!
 
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