What size engine for the online/Youtube EC?

[Ted265]

Has Engine Masters ever done a straight-six shootout? That would be interesting too. I'd LOVE to see a no holds barred maxed-out Hemi six on the dyno.
Didn't the Aussies have a decent (ie non integrated intake manifold) head for the Ford 300?

There are a handful of 265s around the 450-500hp mark NA (and some pretty crazy boosted builds) but it ain't cheap to do. 300-350hp NA is a walk in the park, much more than that requires some re-engineering. (Camshaft has a big unsupported section, conveniently where your dizzy & oil pump drive is - this needs addressing if your looking for power).
Not really into fords so can't comment on if the 250 x flow head will go onto the 300ci block

 

[rumblefish360]

Ideally I was hoping to just get a few entrants with dyno access and we just ship the engines around for testing. Average the scores together from all locations to come up with a "score". J.Rob

That’s nuts! Test the engines on multiple dunk’s are the country?
Wooooooooo

I have no idea what this competition is about, but with these parameters, i want the longest stroke i can get with a slightly wider LSA cam. I voted 440.

It’s about the fun of building an engine that’s better than your competition. How did you miss that?

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

More info. I'd like to see a rule layout for each, or is it anything goes.
I like small blocks and low deck motors..but I can work all those chrysler heads.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I voted 360 but I'd like to make it more a fast class factory iron head limit, .600 lift and whatever piston you want but 11.2 static or 200 psi cranking is the limit. Id also like to see and think it would be harder for most people with a 318 or a 400 stock stroke limit

 

[Bakerlite]

Well whtaever you do, just make sure big numbers are easily obtainable, because that what Tubers want to see and it makes selling the donk easier at the end of it.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

2" ls cut to 1.88 nailhead later...
Yawn, so hard to do omg pps pants..gtfoh
Do it with a 1.78 valve, shysterlite and then we'll be impressed.
Though we'd be more impressed if you didn't drag your pissing match all over the fkn forum, dweeb.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Altitude compensated, or do all engines need to be tested at the same location

Thats why you have to use corrected numbers and everyone has to use the same SAE correction protocol.

 

[Bakerlite]

2" ls cut to 1.88 nailhead later...
Yawn, so hard to do omg pps pants..gtfoh
Do it with a 1.78 valve, shysterlite and then we'll be impressed.
Though we'd be more impressed if you didn't drag your pissing match all over the fkn forum, dweeb.

Have you been drinking?
I think you have me confused with Hysteric. He's been talking to you about heads
valves, small ports etc...
What happened? Did he beat you down and now you have to pivot to someone else?
And what's with the LS thing? I just pointed out that the valve is cheaper. (Which it is)
Take it up with the guy playing with the heads or Vizard if your Ego has a problem with it.

 

[Hysteric]

Have you been drinking?
I think you have me confused with Hysteric. He's been talking to you about heads
valves, small ports etc...
What happened? Did he beat you down and now you have to pivot to someone else?
And what's with the LS thing? I just pointed out that the valve is cheaper. (Which it is)
Take it up with the guy playing with the heads or Vizard if your Ego has a problem with it.

Some one ports a tiny head and gets 240 cfm and they lose their minds........

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Some one ports a tiny head and gets 240 cfm and they lose their minds........

It's more like you are 30 years late in realizing this can be done...and was done long before your little foot could reach a gas pedal .You mostly act like a caveman who just discovered fire .

@RAMM Back to the topic, Any idea on rules?

 

[Hysteric]

It's more like you are 30 years late in realizing this can be done...

So you're still 30 years behind then......

 

[rumblefish360]

@RAMM Back to the topic, Any idea on rules?

Great idea!

 

[pittsburghracer]

I think I can predict exactly how this is going to turn out. 25-30. Of us will keep this post going but when it comes down to following through with it I would be shocked if it went down with todays shipping costs. I’m guessing 800-1000.00 to ship an engine both ways plus the dyno test minimum plus the cost to build an engine that falls within the rules. I’m guessing if three guys followed through with it Ramm would be extremely pleased and probably within the number of participants he hoped for. Good luck guys.

 

[SSG_Karg]

I voted 360 for two reasons.
1. They are relatively plentiful
2. They are perfect for our A bodies
That being said, I think rules should be VERY minimal. I suggest a cubic inch limit and N/A only! Other than that it should be a no holds barred, full-tilt boogie, barbed-wire cage match. I would love to see some wild *** combinations that are maybe less common than we typically see on these pages. If you want to spend $50,000 on the build, fine. But I believe the masses will turn up their noses to big dollar stuff. So maybe the “winner” isn’t necessarily the mill that makes the most power, but a combination of multiple parameters. Like power, weight of complete engine, use of factory parts, total cost of parts, expected longevity, etc.
I have a feeling that the shipping of motors around to different dynos part is going to be a bugaboo. Perhaps using one dyno for all would be better.

 

[RAMM]

Looks like the 360 leads by a pretty vast margin which makes sense. As much as I am attracted to seeing what could be done with a 383/400 (stock) stroke when it comes down to it a B costs more and has less market appeal at the end of the day. J.Rob

 

[pittsburghracer]

I’m going to add that a build like this is probably the most fun I ever had building an engine. I sold my 1972 duster to a friend as a roller in the 1980’s. Needing an engine built I told home I would build him one. We started with the 1972 engine out of a Cuda (340) he had and honed the block, new rings and bearings, 484 purple shaft cam, a set of X or J heads I sold him that I knowing nothing cleaned up for him a little, and I’m not sure on what intake we used and a 750 Holley. His first trip to the track was his first ever and he ran a 12.40 something. He ended up in the 12.20’s that year and never raced again. I charged him 5.00 to build that engine and we bought a bag of jawbreakers to eat while building it. Great times.

 

[RAMM]

I think I can predict exactly how this is going to turn out. 25-30. Of us will keep this post going but when it comes down to following through with it I would be shocked if it went down with todays shipping costs. I’m guessing 800-1000.00 to ship an engine both ways plus the dyno test minimum plus the cost to build an engine that falls within the rules. I’m guessing if three guys followed through with it Ramm would be extremely pleased and probably within the number of participants he hoped for. Good luck guys.

I think you're right on about almost everything here. Of course it will be expensive to ship an engine but do you know what it cost to drive to Ohio and stay for a week? That's not the point though. Those that can afford it will enter and those that cannot-won't. Besides I think I have a way around the whole shipping thing and NOT rely solely on C.F.'s to keep everyone on the up and up. So a person could enter from just about anywhere as long as the dyno service/owner adheres to the rules. This will employ the honor system and we all know it only works if everyone holds themselves accountable. J.Rob

 

[Rat Bastid]

What about say…I don’t know maybe 5 or 6 regional dyno’s that all use the same SAE correction protocol and see if we can cut down on the shipping?

Just throwing poo on the wall to see if it sticks.

Find guys that have a dyno and figure out a 3 hour drive in any direction or something.

Somewhere there should be some way to make this happen and not cost a fortune to get it done.

 

[RAMM]

I’m going to add that a build like this is probably the most fun I ever had building an engine. I sold my 1972 duster to a friend as a roller in the 1980’s. Needing an engine built I told home I would build him one. We started with the 1972 engine out of a Cuda (340) he had and honed the block, new rings and bearings, 484 purple shaft cam, a set of X or J heads I sold him that I knowing nothing cleaned up for him a little, and I’m not sure on what intake we used and a 750 Holley. His first trip to the track was his first ever and he ran a 12.40 something. He ended up in the 12.20’s that year and never raced again. I charged him 5.00 to build that engine and we bought a bag of jawbreakers to eat while building it. Great times.

Yeah, a little saddening to know that will never happen again. J.Rob

 

[RAMM]

What about say…I don’t know maybe 5 or 6 regional dyno’s that all use the same SAE correction protocol and see if we can cut down on the shipping?

Just throwing poo on the wall to see if it sticks.

Find guys that have a dyno and figure out a 3 hour drive in any direction or something.

Somewhere there should be some way to make this happen and not cost a fortune to get it done.

This is how EMC was conducted in the early years. The finalists then ran on the West Coast dyno to level the playing field. The contest eventually evolved into just running at a centralized location all in the span of 5 days. J.Rob

 

[RAMM]

What about say…I don’t know maybe 5 or 6 regional dyno’s that all use the same SAE correction protocol and see if we can cut down on the shipping?

Just throwing poo on the wall to see if it sticks.

Find guys that have a dyno and figure out a 3 hour drive in any direction or something.

Somewhere there should be some way to make this happen and not cost a fortune to get it done.

The first thing that comes to mind is type of dyno. We all know there are multiple mfg's and I've been on a few of them and I like/dislike certain things about all of them. Point being they all "drive" a bit differently. I think the first order of business would be to agree on a type. Obviously I vote for SF-901/902 because I understand the systems and software. This is one reason I wanted to start small with 3-4 interested parties.

But this is getting bogged down in the weeds. Lets hammer out the engine rules before we worry about the feasibility of the rest of it. J.Rob

 

[TT5.9mag]

360 block any bore
3.58 crank only clean up allowed
6.123 rods
N/A only
Single 4 barrel
No roller cam bearings
Stock cam tunnel
Any production small block cylinder head
Has to run on 93 octane

My vote for rules.

 

[RAMM]

360 block any bore
3.58 crank only clean up allowed
6.123 rods
N/A only
Single 4 barrel
No roller cam bearings
Stock cam tunnel
Any production small block cylinder head
Has to run on 93 octane

My vote for rules.

Pretty good, you beat me to it. See following post. J.Rob

 

[Rat Bastid]

360 block any bore
3.58 crank only clean up allowed
6.123 rods
N/A only
Single 4 barrel
No roller cam bearings
Stock cam tunnel
Any production small block cylinder head
Has to run on 93 octane

My vote for rules.

I think this is pretty cool but I have a couple of questions.

What if I don’t want to run a 3.58 stroke? Am I married to that or can I use LESS stroke? What if I don’t want that much stroke?

What about if I want to use a 340 block?

How about a displacement limit? Say 380 inches. That gives a builder some room to get what he wants for geometry.

I’m assuming production means iron. Why not pick a head like the Speed Master because it’s cheap? You’d still have the option to use a production head if the builder thinks that’s the best option.

 

[RAMM]

Ok sharing a PDF link took me awhile to figure out but this should work. These are some very basic rules that are open to discussion. If there is interest we can take it to the next step. Tell me what you think--lets discuss. J.Rob

OEBC Rules