What to do when you're in over your head?

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cascius

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Every day I get on here and read through the various posts. I love watching the build threads and seeing something made from something that was nothing. It's always cool to see the finished product. Right now I'm at a loss on what to do and wanted some opinions/advice/thoughts.

I have a '70 Dart that I've been slowly nibbling away at for the past few years. It's nothing special, 318/auto car. It looked fairly solid when I got it so I was really excited about it. The interior was in extremely nice condition for being original. The seat has one small tear, and I have a clean set of door panels and a new headliner for it. It would need a dash cap and carpet to be perfect (or close to it anyway).

It had been hit on the driver's side and I knew that when I got it. Found another door for it and attempted to put a quarter skin on that side. It is on there, but very poorly done and would take more work to make it look right than to hang a complete quarter. As I've sanded the car down I keep finding more and more body damage. The biggest one that frustrates me right now is the cowl is beat to death. I ground over an inch of Bondo off the top of the cowl on the passenger side. It appears as if something fell on it and someone tried to straighten it and then just filled it in to make it look right. The inner fender has a couple wrinkles in it back where it meets the cowl. I ground a ton of bondo out of the passenger quarter panel as well, but it looks salvageable. Trunk and floors are all solid. Needs trunk drops replaced also as they were very poorly patched.

Just curious what you would do in this situation. Right now, in my opinion, it needs full quarters on both sides replaced, both trunk drops replaced, the driver's side outer wheelhouse replaced, the passenger front inner fender straightened or replaced, a passenger front fender and extension, and the cowl replaced. I'm at the point now that I question whether the car is worth messing with. I have very few tools and little knowledge. Body work (or metal work) is the only thing that really scares me. I'd love to learn it, but with a family that comes first I don't get a lot of spare time. It is currently in the shop out at my Dad's place, but I don't get out there very often. I might get one or two days a month to actually spend out there working on something. I question whether to spend the money to pay someone to do the body and paint or find a more solid car to start with. I know there are guys with skill that would love to have one in the shape that this one is in but I'm definitely not one of them yet. Here's some pictures of the car in it's current state. Is it worth fixing?







 
yes very worth fixing .....that one dont look too bad ...looks like not very much rust ....just a little at a time.
 
Gets overwhelming, does`nt it?
It all depends on how bad you want it, the car, the challenge.
Your biggest setback is not having a shop at home? where you can just chip at it a few hours every day and devote every weekend to it, and can still take years.
If you feel your lacking skillset for it and can afford to farm it out, do so.
When I was searching for a car, my priority was to find the best example, body wise I could find, experiencing rust repair before I new, I did`nt want any part of that, because of my little experience, and having no problem just doing all the mechanical work.
But now I decided I wanted to be a glutton for punishment and took on a project that is far worse.
Ultimatly You have to choose.
 
Its worth fixing for sure. But if Ya dont have the tools, skills or someone to help You, Ya might be better off starting with a better body. It also really sucks not having the car at home. That being said, if Your attached to the car, just keep pluggin away. I bought My Dart when I was 18 and Im almost 37. Its in pieces but I would never sell it. Focus on one thing at a time to help from getting overwhemed.
 
heck yeah it's worth fixing.

Mine was really bad and I learned to choose 1 thing at a time. I tried to stay on the one thing until I got it done. then on to the next. pretty soon(hey 3 years of cutting and welding on it once or twice a month is pretty soon in my work schedule at the time) I was able to put it on it's wheels and start putting the things back on!


that cowl looks easy for a stud gun to pull out and fix then mig up the holes.. (making holes is old school and will cause problems later if moisture gets in there) and moisture surely will get in behind the filler in that location with the opening in for freshair, that would be my starting place. after that everything else is easier!
 
Yep. One hurdle at a time. It can seem overwhelming and some hurdles are a lot bigger than seem, others seem bigger than they are. I am lucky to have friends and family who have done this stuff and help me. When they get stumped I lean on professionals for advice.
 
Where is the closest auto collision repair school to you? I was very fortunate to have one about 20 miles from me. I took night classes for 4 years (I did drag it out, but I was having fun).
C
 
Tackle one panel at a time. Epoxy prime, filler, sand, fill prime, final block then on to the next panel. Assemble then prime to whole shooting match with all your panels lined up. Sand till smooth and paint. I spent 6 months on my bumper it can get overwhelming real quick, don't give up or the car wins.
 
I felt the same way.Found more things to fix than I thought I would while deconstructing the car.Made up my mind I wouldn't let the car defeat me.Try working here...not much room.I miss my 40x52 shop I had in Colorado.
 

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Several good posts,here. Patience is the key. Take a deep breath,walk away if frustrated. Remember,this is supposed to relax you.
P.S: Any pre smog 2 door U.S made car,is worth saving......
 
It's worth fixing. Sounds/looks like you know the basics. I would replace the cowl and fix the rest. The quarter and inner fender need some love, but a dolly and body hammer can help you with that. It's a good car to learn on if you so choose to learn. As others have stated, its up to you. Me personally, I would remove the parts you can and take them home. Work on them there
 
Abodybomber said:
Several good posts,here. Patience is the key. Take a deep breath,walk away if frustrated. Remember,this is supposed to relax you.
P.S: Any pre smog 2 door U.S made car,is worth saving......
Click to expand...

Any pre smog mopar in general! 2dr or 4 lol
 
i'm sure someone on here can get a cowl for you, even half a cowl, maybe donated for free! Remember, its not the welding part that is important, its the fit-up. If you have good fit-up and clean metal, the welding part is relatively easy. Wish I'd have seen this about 8 mos ago, I had a clean cowl section that I junked. Hey don't give up, I have seen WAAAY worse and OWNED and DRIVEN way worse. I had to give up on my 67 B-cuda project cause of too much rust AND title problems. But Im still lookin for an early a body and some day will find the right one.
 
If you don't have the time, tools or the skills to do it you'll have way more money into it then It's worth in my opinion.

If it were me I would part it out or sell it out right and go buy a cleaner car. In fact that's exactly what I did and my car had no places with any where that much plastic in it. We had actually bought the clean 70 dart about a year before I decided to part out the yellow 71.

In my opinion there are just too many clean cars out there to be bothered with a 318 basket case. Be patient and a good deal will come along. Hell just look at the duster Adam r is selling. Just to do both quarters trunk extensions and all is gonna cost close to $2000 just for the new metal alone. Then You have to get it hung and put in prime. Then you need to do the rest of the car, then paint then Chrome then etc....etc. it just snow balls. Find a clean car and be way ahead to start with
 
abodyjoe said:
If you don't have the time, tools or the skills to do it you'll have way more money into it then It's worth in my opinion.

If it were me I would part it out or sell it out right and go buy a cleaner car. In fact that's exactly what I did and my car had no places with any where that much plastic in it. We had actually bought the clean 70 dart about a year before I decided to part out the yellow 71.

In my opinion there are just too many clean cars out there to be bothered with a 318 basket case. Be patient and a good deal will come along. Hell just look at the duster Adam r is selling. Just to do both quarters trunk extensions and all is gonna cost close to $2000 just for the new metal alone. Then You have to get it hung and put in prime. Then you need to do the rest of the car, then paint then Chrome then etc....etc. it just snow balls. Find a clean car and be way ahead to start with
Click to expand...

This is the biggest thing that I keep going back and forth against. I don't want to spend $10K for body and metal work for something that might be worth that when the whole car is done. I don't plan on selling it but if something came up and I needed to it'd be nice to get the majority of the cash investment back (I know you'll never come out ahead if you include your time). If it were a 340 car or something desirable then I wouldn't have any problem with it because it would actually be worth something. I have been looking into another '70 that my neighbor's brother in law has. It's a rust free New Mexico car that's pulled apart further than mine is right now. Trying to get a price out of him right now.
 
That car really is not that bad. You have to ask yourself what will you do with it when you are done? If you wanna continue to work on it can you get a portable tent,shed,etc... so you have it at your house for when you have spare time. Will anybody mentor you.
 
i 100% agree with Joe , its a 318 car, its not rare. if it were me , and it has been, I would cut my losses, strip every usable piece off it and find a clean shell . by the time you spend all that money and time trying to fix whats there, you could already have another one painted. there are still plenty of clean shells out there , some are worth the money to fix and dump 1,000's of dollars worth of metal work in to , but that's not one of them, if it was a 340 4 speed FC7 matching motor car , then maybe yes.......my 0.02 cents.
 
cascius said:
It is currently in the shop out at my Dad's place, but I don't get out there very often. I might get one or two days a month to actually spend out there working on something. I question whether to spend the money to pay someone to do the body and paint or find a more solid car to start with. I know there are guys with skill that would love to have one in the shape that this one is in but I'm definitely not one of them yet.
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Naw, I think you've answered your own question here. Not enough time, not enough motivation AND the car is far from you. I doubt if it would be finished even in 10 years at this pace. Find something that's done or needs very little. Plus, if you pay someone to do it all, you'll definitely be upside down on a car that had rust issues once already (and may return). Sell it and find something better....something you can enjoy with your family NOW!
 
R4Sedan said:
That car really is not that bad. You have to ask yourself what will you do with it when you are done? If you wanna continue to work on it can you get a portable tent,shed,etc... so you have it at your house for when you have spare time. Will anybody mentor you.
Click to expand...

I have plenty of people to mentor me but the fact that they are 10-20 miles away makes it hard to spend any amount of time on the car. I have a shop at home to park it in when it's done. It's a dirt floor, open eave shop that makes good dry storage but is FAR from a usable work space.

cudavert said:
Naw, I think you've answered your own question here. Not enough time, not enough motivation AND the car is far from you. I doubt if it would be finished even in 10 years at this pace. Find something that's done or needs very little. Plus, if you pay someone to do it all, you'll definitely be upside down on a car that had rust issues once already (and may return). Sell it and find something better....something you can enjoy with your family NOW!
Click to expand...

A lot of the lack of motivation comes from the car not being at the house. It's hard to get motivated to pack up all my tools from home, go work on the car for an hour or two, pack everything back up, and go back home. Weeknights are out of question, and weekends are few and far between. I think I would be happier selling everything I have and having one done (or close to it) car that I can use. I don't want to wait 10 years to be able to build this one.
 
Hell, I am over my head. You just have to read my posts :) The kind folk on this board take pity on me and answer my questions.

However, I knew I didn't want to get into bodywork nor welding so I bought the best body I could find.

I think the trick is that when things get too overwhelming, walk away for a bit and second, never let it interfere with the family. Family is more important.

You are lucky to have mentors...I feel like I am the only MOPAR guy within 60 miles...and I am drowning among fords and chebbys..

Grassy
 
My family is the most important thing to me. I am fortunate enough to have a wife who shares an interest in classic cars and willingly goes to the car club meetings, car shows, and cruise nights with me. She sees my passion for the hobby and supports it as long as all the other priorities are taken care of first. My 4 year old son just wants to be like daddy so of course he loves them. He is super sharp at identifying cars already. I can only hope my newborn daughter will share the same interest. This is about the only thing that we really do for entertainment as a family (although I am restoring a Honda 50 for my boy so we will be getting back into dirt riding some in the future). About the only time we go out to eat is if we are at one of the above enents. If it came down to needing money, the cars and parts are the first to go. I'm just trying to get to the point where I have a nice driver that we can enjoy now and I can change little things as I go. I actually talked to a guy this morning that may be coming to look at both the Dart and the Duster. As much as I'd like to have a done car, I'd also like to sell everything and be able to make my shop at home a usable work space.
 
Watch out with that Honda 50. I bought a little Yamaha pw 80 and it turned into 5 years of MX racing for both kids...the son ended top 3 in his class for the Maritimes :). Great times. We too are a family that does everything together.

The Duster was bought to lure them out of that sport. Neither kid was hurt until the son took up V-ball and the daughter cheerleading..man, what a dngerous sport.

Maybe the best bet would be to sell both and buy a runner that you dont "have" to work on...

good luck either way..

ian.
 
If you are worried about having more $$ than it is worth when done sell it & take up rock collecting......
 
Looks like the crease in the cowl is from a hood popping open on the freeway in the cars past. These cowls.are the same stamping 67 to 76 all a body 2 and 4 door except duster and demon.

Good opportunity to remove it to change it out, and fix whatever rust may be hiding in the cowl area. Yes its a ***** to change out. You will need spotweld cutters, remove your heater box, windshield,.and possibly the dash. Get one from a donor car thats not bent up. Its a shame, since i had a clean one off a 74 dart 4 door. The A pillars where they meet at the cowl have lead filler in this area. Use a bernsomatic torch and wire brush to remove it. Dont grind it off u might inhale the dust. When the new cowl is welded in, plastic filler works just fine in this area to smooth it out.

Doing the sheetmetal, you have to temp install panels that are next to what u are replacing before welding it in, this way you can make.sure you are welding everything in the right place etc.

I would recommend working one panel to completion, primer and all. This way you have a sense of satisfaction of a job well done. Then move on to the next adjacent panel, and work it thru to completion and primer etc. once you make it all the way around the car you will look at your first panel and with the experience gained you will likely find spots in it you want to redo to make better.

I would love to change out a set of full quarters, and a cowl panel again. Did a damn near full reskin on a friends 66 K code mustang coupe years ago. It was fun.

If wire welding isnt something you know how to do on "thin sheetmetal" believe me some guys blow holes in it tryinv to fix it. Get somebody who can without popping holes in it or warping it with excessive heat.

Id go full quarters if you can simply because there will not be any non stock seams, and the biggest seam is hidden behind a vinyl top on the C pillar. These end up being much easier to install with much less bodywork than a half skin. Im patching my original quarters and running the car in primer until AMD makes full quarters for a cuda notchback, then i will change em out.

Network with other classic car people in your.area, and dont lose hope. Look at my pix. I have had mine a few years now. Im not even close to being done. We dont restore em for the money, these things are a total pit in that regard. Think of it as something to do w your son, plus the fact that you are not going to get out of it what you have in it, so you might as well keep going.

How do you eat a whole elephant? One bite at a time. Work on the car one panel at a time, one part at a time. Get satisfaction out of individual jobs you finish on the car. Trying to do it all at once will overwhelm you.
 
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