What to seal head studs

-

DART340

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
180
Reaction score
1
My engine has been together for a while and now has started to use water. Its not a head gasket but its drawing water up from along the head studs. I used a thread sealer when I put it together and it was fine for about 2 years, now it started using water. What is everyone using on their head studs?

teflon.............red rtv.........or ?
 
White lithium grease might work. I use rtv silicone. The parts must be clean and dry though.

OOPs, I was thinking exhaust manifold studs
 
Which thread sealer did you use....Loctite 567 pipe sealant is the go...must be clean though.
 
do you have a "closed system"? (coolant recovery bottle)
...it's not the bolts (see 66 Dartman--the holes are blind)
how did you eliminate the head gasket leak?

is the oil level coming up?
yes-timing cover gasket/intake gasket/head gasket
no-water pump/exhaust studs (end ones)/freeze plug (also consider a radiator or heater core issue)

unless you've run it hot (last two years), i would rule out a cracked head.
..try driving 30 min and put a 4 x4 paper/cardboard under the car
to check for small slow external leaks
 
as far as I know, the head bolt holes are blind. Did I miss something?

Exactly.... that's why I stated oil... and the oil was just to lube up the threads. I have never heard anyone putting any kind of sealant on head bolts.

If there is a leak around a head bolt it would be a cracked head or some other unforeseen evil.

In my understanding anyways.... I have been wrong before. lol
 
The engine runs perfect, no overheating, no missing. I have oil water mixture at top underside of valve covers. No water ever in oil or oil pan. Edelbrock and arp say its common for water to chase up head studs and they are the ones to recomend thread sealer. How else would water get under valve cover? Little problems like this drive me crazy
 
How would you be getting water under your valve cover, yet none in the oil?.. It must just not be enough to notice it in the pan.

Sounds like a head gasket to me though. I'm not sure what you mean by the top underside of a valve cover is. If you mean between the deck and valve cover, it sound's like you've got a valve cover gasket leak as well if it's seeping out.

It sounds like to me that your crank case ventilation isn't working properly and you've built pressure in the crank case, and now it's found places to escape. Or your valve cover bolts are improperly torqued.
 
The engine runs perfect, no overheating, no missing. I have oil water mixture at top underside of valve covers. No water ever in oil or oil pan. Edelbrock and arp say its common for water to chase up head studs and they are the ones to recomend thread sealer. How else would water get under valve cover? Little problems like this drive me crazy

Did not know that about ARP bolts... I'll have to remember that. I've always used stock head bolts so I wouldn't have known.
 
The engine runs perfect, no overheating, no missing. I have oil water mixture at top underside of valve covers. No water ever in oil or oil pan. Edelbrock and arp say its common for water to chase up head studs

Say what..i've been running ARP studs on both my 416 and 360 for 5 years now no leaks,i'd look elsewhere if i were you..
 
There was a thread on this a while back where a lite was shined down the bolt holes in a 318 and it lit up the water passages so they aren't all blind.
 
Cylinder holes are blind. If you have milky white residue under your valve covers, it's most likely due to condensation. Like others said, check your PCV system. If it's working fine, there's really not much you can do about it short of moving to a drier climate.

I'm using ARP studs with zero issues. Studs should only be installed finger tight in the block anyway.
 
For those of you using arp head studs, do you remember what torque specs you used, I have one place saying 85 ftlbs and then another saying 70 ftlbs.
 
For those of you using arp head studs, do you remember what torque specs you used, I have one place saying 85 ftlbs and then another saying 70 ftlbs.

Have you seen this off of ARP website?

http://arp-bolts.com/pages/technical_torque_us.shtml

I can't make any since out of it because there is three different PSI categories. The first category is 170,000/180,000. I have 1/4" ARP valve cover bolts and it is calling for 12 ft/lbs under 170,000/180,000.

Man that is a lot of torque on a 1/4" fastener! I went with stock mopar which is 72 in/lbs. I don't know... weird.

The head bolt diameter is listed.
 
Cylinder holes are blind. If you have milky white residue under your valve covers, it's most likely due to condensation. Like others said, check your PCV system. If it's working fine, there's really not much you can do about it short of moving to a drier climate.

I'm using ARP studs with zero issues. Studs should only be installed finger tight in the block anyway.

Thats what I thought too but check out post 13 in this thread.http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=120109
 
head bolt/studs are blind, the only thing that should be on studs is a light lubricant in order to ensure the correct torque is applied, anything like silicone will cause a erroneous head torque reading, which can cause numerous issues, including leaks and catastrophic failure in some case, of course 75+ engines later, i could be wrong.....
Dodge29
 
i,m gonna pull a couple heads today,a 318 and a 360 and if there isnt any open holes the poster oughta be banned for intentionally lying to people looking for help. Thats just bullshit. Made me feel like an idiot and I apologized for posting bad info.
 
head bolt/studs are blind, the only thing that should be on studs is a light lubricant in order to ensure the correct torque is applied, anything like silicone will cause a erroneous head torque reading, which can cause numerous issues, including leaks and catastrophic failure in some case, of course 75+ engines later, i could be wrong.....
Dodge29

I agree. I researched bolt torquing at work years ago. A coworker had a chart from Rocketdyne and NASA. We strive for the correct linear tension (stretching force) in the bolt, inferred from measurements of the twisting applied (torque). The later is affected by both thread angle and friction in the threads and nut surface.

If you oil the threads, it does not increase the final bolt tension beyond what you would get from clean, dry threads. This is a bit surprising. Apparently, the oil gets squeezed out at the high pressure. Oil does give more repeatable results than with dry threads.

If you use a high-pressure lubricant like MbS2 powder (or moly grease) on the threads, the bolt tension will be ~2x higher, even more if you put MbS2 under the bolt head. If torqued to the normal "lightly oiled" value, the bolt may break. I don't know about silicone that Dodge29 mentions, but avoid it also.

Use minimal oil and probably a light one like SAE 10 ("3-in-1") or WD-40. The danger is filling the hole with oil and realizing "hydraulic lock", where the bolt "bottoms out" on the oil and isn't tight (head gasket leak).

Blow out each hole to insure it isn't filled with oil, water, anything else that could bind the bolt. I first install each bolt with the head off to insure they go in smooth and measure they go in slightly deeper than the thickness of the head. If any threads are rough, run a tap down them. Usually clean because oil sits on the threads.
 
Yeah right... I'm Elvis

Not very convincing Photoshop in my honest opinion. lol

Now you just earned yourself a "**** for brains," **** for brains.

If you'd like to pay the shipping on this block, and the minimal amount I have invested in the core, I'll send the damn thing to ya and you can find out just how photoshopped it is.

When I took those shots, I did two simple things:

Looked at a 340 block, and noticed that it is "all blind"

Dug around on this 318, and noticed that it is "wet". I took the camera, held my LED flashlight up against the block AS SHOWN and snapped some shots. THE ONLY "photoshop" (I use GIMP) was to crop them and reduce the filesize. PERIOD

If you want, I'll get my camera, and go take some more pictures.

I'm not saying "every" or "most" or even "many" but I have seen more than one core engine with WET HEADBOLT HOLES. MAYBE Ma only made them for a few years. MAYBE they are a casting fluke. Me no have answer.

MKAY?
 
i,m gonna pull a couple heads today,a 318 and a 360 and if there isnt any open holes the poster oughta be banned for intentionally lying to people looking for help. Thats just bullshit. Made me feel like an idiot and I apologized for posting bad info.

If you ever meet me face to face, you'll find I'm a "no bullshit" guy. If I tell you something, I believe it to be true. Those pictures I posted show it. I did not intend to make you feel badly, only that "there are some" out there.
 
Yeah right... I'm Elvis

Not very convincing Photoshop in my honest opinion. lol

If you can show me I'm wrong, fine. I won't tolerate being called a liar

The only "photoshop" used in these was to crop them and scale them.

The only blind holes on one side of this block are the front lower hole and the hole adjacent to the oil upper oil galley (you can see the front upper hole with the pump boss)

wjwgtz.jpg


25u6uck.jpg


smeddi.jpg


72aa9e.jpg


2m2xcub.jpg


2v01k0n.jpg
 
to further Bill's comment, ARP fasteners ships all their stud kits with a special molly lubricant and instructions, what you put on the threads will affect the torque value, also torque spec for la blocks if i remember is 90, when using cometics or steel layers type gaskets and high compression engines, we always torque the studs closes to the lifter valley to 120 and the studs to the outside of the block to 110, to compensate for the longer inner stud length.....

Dodge29
 
-
Back
Top