What's wrong with engineers now days?

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74dusterman

74dusterman

74dusterman
Joined
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After working on the 1967 Dodge D200 I bought recently I have to wonder what the engineers now days are thinking when they design vehicles. I had to remove the heater core on the 67 this weekend, remove 3 bolts from the firewall and the whole heater box comes out of the truck. How about changing oil on a newer vehicle? They should go back to the way the old big blocks were designed. No oil running along a crossmember when you pull the oil plug and you don't need 3 boys and a priest to get the oil filter off either. Now days you damn near have to remove the front clip just to change spark plugs. If your gas cap is not tightened properly it will set off the check engine light, WTF? People wonder why I like all the old school vehicles, at least I can work on them without a laptop. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some of the modern features but I think the engineers should take lessons from the old school Mopar engineers. :violent1:
 
This is one of the main reasons when we traded our PT Cruiser in we bought a newer Mustang. One of the few cars I can look in the engine bay and still see the ground and not a snake nest. The PT had a lot of issues and working on it was a serious pain in the rear. At one point I had to change the alternator. Guess what. No serviceable in the driveway without a ton of work. The mechanic had to drop the engine to get to it. WTF? Recently had to replace the alternator in the Mustang and it took all of 15 minutes and normal tools. This is also why I bought a classic for my secondary DD and my wife bought one as her DD. In the process of switching my classic over to fuel injection because I'm not a carb fan.

Doubt we'll ever see engineers go back to the old designs because everything in a car nowadays is there for safety, MPG, smog, or sound deadening. Going backwards is fine, but I doubt the masses are really willing to sacrifice one of those things.
 
I hear you. In 1977 my 1964 Polara's alternator quit charging. I had to replace the brushes which cost me 13 cents and required the use of a Philips head screw driver to replace them without moving the alternator. On the advice of my next door neighbor master mechanic, I opened the voltage regulator and refurbished the contact surfaces and adjusted the gap. Never had another problem with the charging system.
 
I am more disapointed in the enineering its self. Take the 3.8 V-6 in my 2010 Jeep unlimited. What a shitbox and most other people who own one think so too. I have heard plenty of people who have under 50K talk about how it burns oil. Lifter tick when you start it up after it sits for a couple hours. I wont get started about the power. I have always loved mopars but my jeep makes me think I should buy somthing else when I go to buy a new rig.
 
I can show you plenty of engineering flops "from the old days." Some of them didn't work out so bad simply because there isn't "so much" to a vehicle or other piece of equipment back then.

But stuff like "oil running down a crossmember" is easy. A scrap of sheet metal or even cardboard is often all you need. Back when I had my 69 383RR, later my 70 440-6, I used to use a piece of cardboard under the filter when changing. Easy.
 
It's usually not the engineers that result in these messes it's the bean counters that get final say in what gets done. That said I do recall some young engineers that would design to "enginered perfection" without thinking of the buyers or people who had to service them afterwards..
 
I hear ya, We have a 4.0 SOHC 99 Explorer, I think the water pump is leaking, I could tell, if I could see it.

I did the upper and lower intake o rings a while ago, who designed that engine? What a dumb idea, same with the timing chains, one driven of the front, one off the back of the motor.

I had a 79 LTD a while ago, 302 with AC, heater core started leaking, what a pain in the butt to change it. We have a 2003 H2, 6.0, its so big its easy to work on, no complaints there.

I had a 91 F150, 302 4x4, always hated that oil filter location, drained all over the axle, the Explorer too, gotta use cardboard or the oil drains all over the suspension.

70 Duster Slant 6, easy as heck, punch a hole in the oil filter and it doesn't even make a mess when you take it off, always kinda hated the oil filter location on big blocks, gotta stuff the cross member with rags, or get a remote filter and mount it somewhere.
 
From the other side of the fence, I can see that Stumper nails it.

There's a lot more to building a car than engineering. Often, engineering gets the second or third go at it, after styling and bean-counters have gang-banged it into mediocrity.
 
rp23g7 said:
I hear ya, We have a 4.0 SOHC 99 Explorer, I think the water pump is leaking, I could tell, if I could see it.

I did the upper and lower intake o rings a while ago, who designed that engine? What a dumb idea, same with the timing chains, one driven of the front, one off the back of the motor.

I had a 79 LTD a while ago, 302 with AC, heater core started leaking, what a pain in the butt to change it. We have a 2003 H2, 6.0, its so big its easy to work on, no complaints there.

I had a 91 F150, 302 4x4, always hated that oil filter location, drained all over the axle, the Explorer too, gotta use cardboard or the oil drains all over the suspension.

70 Duster Slant 6, easy as heck, punch a hole in the oil filter and it doesn't even make a mess when you take it off, always kinda hated the oil filter location on big blocks, gotta stuff the cross member with rags, or get a remote filter and mount it somewhere.
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Have you ever priced the timing chain set up for that Explorer 4.0 SOHC? I have one of the 99 Explorers too with over 250,000 miles on it. The timing chain went out and I put an 65,000 mile motor in it instead of doing the timing chains.
 
I don't agree with late models being hard to service or not lasting.
I service a 2003 Dodge 3500 Diesel, 2005 300C, 2008 Liberty, & a 2010 RAM 1500 HEMI.
No harder to change oil & filter on than my race car, which can leak oil all over the headers, if steps are not taken.
Change the plugs in the 300C & the Jeep, Took an 1.5 hour on the first & 1.0 hour on the second one.
I have owned several Chrysler mini-vans, water pumps were a breeze, also true of oil changes.
Some said these are throw away vehicles, the difference being, that you threw the cars of the 60's, 70's, & 80's away at a 100K. The newer ones get throwed away at 200K +.
No complaints from my late model stuff.
 
My 08' Hemi is the easiest car I ever owned to change plugs on - even though there were 16 of them. Way easier than the earlier V8s with plugs on the sides of the heads ...:)
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
Have you ever priced the timing chain set up for that Explorer 4.0 SOHC? I have one of the 99 Explorers too with over 250,000 miles on it. The timing chain went out and I put an 65,000 mile motor in it instead of doing the timing chains.
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Never priced it, How much? Its either going to get a OHV 4.0 or sent to the junk yard when it dies, depending how I feel.

Its been a good truck, 160,000 miles and the only issue was a wheel hub/bearing at 40,000 miles and that intake o ring,
 
If cars where easy to work on there would be no money in them. They sell the cars at below cost and then they make up the profit in the aftermarket. Service, parts and everything else. And if you do not use the manufacturer approved parts and shops your warranty is void.
If work on a car is complicated the billable hours go up and more profits. (The car industry has learned from the lawyers how it is done).

There is worklists being distributed to shops that tell how long a specific job should take, an experienced mechanic usually does the job in a shorter time but you still pay for the full listed time. That is how a mechanic can pull in maybe 12-14 hours worth of work in an 8 hour workday.

All of this is taken in to account when cars are being designed.
 
jos51700 said:
From the other side of the fence, I can see that Stumper nails it.

There's a lot more to building a car than engineering. Often, engineering gets the second or third go at it, after styling and bean-counters have gang-banged it into mediocrity.
Click to expand...

Ever change the oil in a later model Ram with a 5.7 Hemi?
The dang filter is right above the boot for the steering rack. If you don't have a rag, it soaks the boot and I'm sure eventually that would lead to a failure.
A young mechanic told me that the A/C drain in the 2002-2008 Rams is above the trans dipstick hole. In some cases, the water can get past the dipstick seal. Once water gets into the trans, it is not good.
 
Old School Mopar engineers, ummm They should have taught the CEO's a thing or two, than Mopar would still be an independent American company But Nooo, they made front wheel drive cars until they lost it
 
cars are sold underpriced????????? WTF is that --R u Nuts????? don't see any of the big names losing millions of dollars ???? they are at record profits and you say from service???????? keep taking a toke dude--they sell at twice if not more than cost--GEEZ some peoples kids.
 
They sell at 2x goal cost. This means that they will sell them for somewhere between 1.5x and 2x.

I honestly don't care. I don't want a new car. I can get fuel economy and practicality out of my old cars. I don't need a truck to answer my phone for me, tell me how to get somwhere or tell me to pay a radio service bill. I need a truck to put a bunch of crap in and move it around.

I don't even like A/C or power windows.
 
68dart318 said:
I am more disapointed in the enineering its self. Take the 3.8 V-6 in my 2010 Jeep unlimited. What a shitbox and most other people who own one think so too. I have heard plenty of people who have under 50K talk about how it burns oil. Lifter tick when you start it up after it sits for a couple hours. I wont get started about the power.
Click to expand...
my 2000 GC has the good old 4.0.

I've had people say to me "I didn't know that was a diesel" because of the way it sounds:banghead:
 
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