When to worry about engine noises?

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MRGTX

MRGTX

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My engine is running great and pulling hard but it makes some noises that I don't like so I would appreciate any input on this.

I have about 1500 miles on my Blueprint engines 408 stroker. This is a hydraulic/roller engine, Magnum block with Edelbrock aluminum heads and 10:1 compression. It does have forged pistons (which may be relevant to the noise issue...).

I ran their recommended/branded break-in oil for the first ~700 miles or so, and I have run their recommended version of Shell Rotella dinosaur oil ever since. I am on my second change with that stuff...so the thing has never been low on oil nor has it ever had old oil in it. It has seen nothing but Shell 93 octane gas. Timing is set as recommended (all in at 34*). The engine has yet to be flogged, largely because the Radial T/A tires won't let that happen. :D

The oil pressure runs lower than my old Magnum 5.9. When fully warm, it hovers around 40psi while cruising. At idle, it drops down to close to 20.

When running, especially at idle, the engine makes some clattering/clacking noises. It almost sounds like it has solid lifters. It's noticeable from inside or outside of the car.

I called Blueprint engines last summer to ask them about this and they said that their Chrysler motors tend to be mechanically noisy and not to worry about it. They also said that the oil pressure was normal.

Would you be worried about this noise? When do you know it's time for a tear down?
The engine has a warranty but the last thing I want to do is actually use it.
 
Guessing you've eliminated this already, but possible header/exhaust leak? Can often sound like ticking valve train. Just a thought
 
Probably a stupid question but you wouldn't by chance have an OEM exhaust manifold with the thermostatic damper in it? Those will rattle like crazy.
 
Not 100% up on Rotella any more, but using a diesel formulated oil in a gasoline engine is very bad policy.

I’m not going to type out all the reasons why because a quick search of the web will explain it.

Think of this. You don’t hear of diesel guys running gasoline formulated oils in their engines do you?

Two completely different lubrication scenarios.

The oil probably isn’t your noise issue, but it’s still the wrong oil.

And 20 pounds of idle oil pressure is WRONG. That’s at the gauge. You probably have 5 pounds of pressure at the rods and zero at the rockers.

Go up a grade or two in oil.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Not 100% up on Rotella any more, but using a diesel formulated oil in a gasoline engine is very bad policy.
Click to expand...
I agree. The American Petroleum Institute (API) has standards to which oils must meet in order to be certified to said standard. There are other standards out there but API is probably the most well known. For diesel engines the standards start with the letter "C" followed by a letter. They started with CA and as a new standard was created, the next was CB so on and so forth. For gasoline engines the standards start with "S". The newer the standard, they higher in the alphabet the second letter is. A quick look at a bottle of Costo's 5W-30 shows it is certified SP, SN. Generally speaking, the newer will supercede the lower specs but that can be misleading. I had a difficult time finding the API specs for Rotella online but if you look at the bottle, you should see API then CK, CJ or something like that (those are the diesel specs. You may see an "S" spec but the one I found online did NOT have an "S" rating, meaning it does NOT meet an automotive spec and you would be in violation of any new car warranty out there I would be willing to bet. To clarify, some oils may have both a C(x) and a S(x) rating, meaning it is good for either diesel or gas engine.

So what are the characteristics which the specs are written for? There are several properties of oil that are looked at. Viscosity index: change in viscosity over temperature. Pour point: lowest temperature it will pour. Flash point: Lowest temperature at which vapors will ignite for a short time. Fire point: Lowest temperature vapors will continually burn. Oxidation: Resistance to the oil oxidizing or turning to varnish. Corrosion: Resistance to rusting of parts. There are a few others that I just can't recall the name to off hand but one has to do with electrolysis between dissimilar metals, resistance to high pressure breakdown and a few others.

I have heard of engine rebuilders recommending Rotella before but I do not know why. If your engine has a flat tappet cam I would recommend an oil with ZDDP additive which is a zinc compound that takes the place of lead which was used as a lubricant back in the old days and probably why my parents told me not to eat snow (each flake has a particle of dirt in it to which it forms). That said there are ZDDP additives you can add to oil however I recall a lubrication class I took years ago they had told us that oils can only mix with approximately 30% by volume additives (super saturated) and that if you add an additive to an oil that it possibly would not combine but rather remain separated...I can not confirm or deny this as the truth but it has always stuck in my brain. I have added ZDDP to oil nevertheless.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Not 100% up on Rotella any more, but using a diesel formulated oil in a gasoline engine is very bad policy.

I’m not going to type out all the reasons why because a quick search of the web will explain it.

Think of this. You don’t hear of diesel guys running gasoline formulated oils in their engines do you?

Two completely different lubrication scenarios.

The oil probably isn’t your noise issue, but it’s still the wrong oil.

And 20 pounds of idle oil pressure is WRONG. That’s at the gauge. You probably have 5 pounds of pressure at the rods and zero at the rockers.

Go up a grade or two in oil.
Click to expand...

THIS !!!

I had the exact same problem!

Fully balanced and blueprinted stroker 408, Eddie aluminum heads, Diamond 10.5 -1 pistons, Comp Cams extreme energy camshaft, Airgap intake, TTi shorties.

Broke in the engine with Brad Penn, after about 1500 miles, started to hear very noticeable valvetrain noise. Thought it was lifter problem, diagnosed a bad lifter with a stethescope, replaced it and then found another one noisy!! WTF !!

I drained the synthetic Mercedes Benz oil (made by Mobil) and went back to 5W 30 regular oil. Problem solved! No noise!

3 Redseal mechanics could not offer an explanation including the engine builder who has a stellar record for building these engines.

Finally, at work, an oil representative showed up at work so I asked him what he thought.

Exactly as Rat bastid said.

The Benz oil I used , 5w 30 synthetic was specially formulated for diesel engines, says so right on the bottle which I didn't read (stupid me!) and does not work well in gas engines.

I switched to Royal Purple 5w 30 synthetic and no issues since!
 
It’s a bit curious why companies like this still call out mineral oils. Synthetics are so far superior to mineral oils it’s not funny.

That’s the textbook example of stepping over a donut to pick up a dog turd.
 
Huh my stone stock unrebuilt 360 mag in the Durango with about 190k on it (body has more than that on it) never goes below 30 at its hottest, idling in gear at a light.
Cold at 2000 rpm, it's around 65, cruising down the road at ~1750 it's usually around 55. Something ain't right with yours
 
Engine builders recommend using the rotella because it was higher in zinc but apparently they dont use as much zinc anymore. I cant confirm that as it is just what I have been told.
I used it a lot with no guff so far but Im trying the Lucas break in oil on the next build. Like honey! Often wonder about diesel oil being hard on the int shaft for dist and oil pump.
 
Lots of good suggestions here... you guys really have me thinking about the oil selection

dartindanno said:
Website shows 10W-30 non synthetic for oil on the roller cam engines. Link to website attached

Roller Camshaft Engines:
BluePrint Part #BPP710 or a 10W30, non-synthetic oil. A zinc additive, or break-in oils are not necessary, but can be used.

Tech Tips
Click to expand...

I see that on the web page. There's also a pamphlet that came along with the engine that listed Rotella as one of the acceptable oils. No way in hell would I pick this diesel oil on my own!
 
MRGTX said:
Lots of good suggestions here... you guys really have me thinking about the oil selection



I see that on the web page. There's also a pamphlet that came along with the engine that listed Rotella as one of the acceptable oils. No way in hell would I pick this diesel oil on my own!
Click to expand...
Doesn't explain the low oil psi though.
40lbs idle and 65lbs At freeway speed is what I expect.
Noise. Change oil and then see IF the noise is still lingering or gone away.
I wonder what the bearing clearances are in that puppy. If you get the motor real hot 'some people do and don't even know it' ...like a misreading gauge or sender...the oil pressure will drop as the oil viscosity drops to water .
 
Rat Bastid said:
And 20 pounds of idle oil pressure is WRONG. That’s at the gauge. You probably have 5 pounds of pressure at the rods and zero at the rockers.

Go up a grade or two in oil.
Click to expand...
But before you do anything, screw a manual gauge into it and see what the oil pressure really is.
 
How has no one tagged @Johnny Mac yet. If you have a warranty concern, I suggest letting the people who handle the warranty make the decision. Find a way to get their ears on it and let them tell you it’s ok or it’s not. What ever they say ask for it in writing.
 
TT5.9mag said:
How has no one tagged @Johnny Mac yet. If you have a warranty concern, I suggest letting the people who handle the warranty make the decision. Find a way to get their ears on it and let them tell you it’s ok or it’s not. What ever they say ask for it in writing.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU! @TT5.9mag .

lots of speculating here, and between rocker adjustment, oil viscosity, and header leak, we likely have our culprit in one of them. It's easy to get hung up on oil pressure, and pass over gauge integrity, oil viscosity, operating temps, etc.

I have been doing this a long time, and I can't say that 25 psi at 190 degrees while idling at 700 rpm sets off my "thing things gonna blow" meter. Especially with gauge variance.

The Rotella is only mentioned in the manual for flat tappet engines, which we hardly build anymore.

I will shoot the OP a pm, and we'll gladly help to figure it out. I'm always here for you guys if needed.
 
MRGTX said:
My engine is running great and pulling hard but it makes some noises that I don't like so I would appreciate any input on this.

I have about 1500 miles on my Blueprint engines 408 stroker. This is a hydraulic/roller engine, Magnum block with Edelbrock aluminum heads and 10:1 compression. It does have forged pistons (which may be relevant to the noise issue...).

I ran their recommended/branded break-in oil for the first ~700 miles or so, and I have run their recommended version of Shell Rotella dinosaur oil ever since. I am on my second change with that stuff...so the thing has never been low on oil nor has it ever had old oil in it. It has seen nothing but Shell 93 octane gas. Timing is set as recommended (all in at 34*). The engine has yet to be flogged, largely because the Radial T/A tires won't let that happen. :D

The oil pressure runs lower than my old Magnum 5.9. When fully warm, it hovers around 40psi while cruising. At idle, it drops down to close to 20.

When running, especially at idle, the engine makes some clattering/clacking noises. It almost sounds like it has solid lifters. It's noticeable from inside or outside of the car.

I called Blueprint engines last summer to ask them about this and they said that their Chrysler motors tend to be mechanically noisy and not to worry about it. They also said that the oil pressure was normal.

Would you be worried about this noise? When do you know it's time for a tear down?
The engine has a warranty but the last thing I want to do is actually use help.
Click to expand...
Your inbox is full. Please clear it out or call me tomorrow 308 236 1949. Happy to help!
 
FWIW I've been running Valvoline 5W-40 "European Formula" in my roller-cammed 360 for at least 6,000 miles now, no noises. My hot oil pressure at idle is around 15 psi which is on the low side but I have external oil feed to the rocker shafts along with hollow pushrods and I'm fairly certain my valvetrain is getting more oil than it needs. I've been meaning to make new rocker shaft hold-down bolts with a smaller hole to restrict oil flow a bit more.

I picked that oil because it's fully synthetic, I like the viscosity spread, and it's approved for certain late-model European engines (both gas AND diesel) that put high stress on valvetrain parts, oftentimes with flat cam followers. This particular engine has a roller cam anyway so I also don't need zinc, however I believe there are modern additives (moly) that serve the same purpose and do a better job. Would I take that gamble running this oil in an old-school flat-tappet V8 as opposed to something like Penn Grade or Schaeffer's though that does have zinc and is designed for older engines? Probably not...
 
QUINN FORBES said:
Engine builders recommend using the rotella because it was higher in zinc but apparently they dont use as much zinc anymore. I cant confirm that as it is just what I have been told.
I used it a lot with no guff so far but Im trying the Lucas break in oil on the next build. Like honey! Often wonder about diesel oil being hard on the int shaft for dist and oil pump.
Click to expand...


There is more to engine oil than zinc diakyldithiophosphate.

Choosing an oil based solely on ZDDP concentration is at best an uniformed decision.

At the worst, it’s not doing its job because it can’t.

While I’m on my soap box I might as well go here.

Using a ZDDP additive to “fix” or “upgrade” an oil will pretty much always reduce the effectiveness of the oil.

The guys who formulate and develop these oils are way smarter than the guys who sell these additives.

If your oil needs an additive you need a better oil, not some trick **** in a bottle.
 
SOME (NOT ALL) Synthetic oils, find leaks where nothing else will. At a molecular level, it's man made, and particles are the same size/shape. Like turning an egg timer full of fine sand over. It'll all find its way down the hole eventually. Picture the same egg timer with coarse, non uniform sand. Doesn't drain as fast....may even stop "leaking" entirely. The extreme slickness of synthetics is what makes them problematic on old school engines. My opinion. And having seen cross hatch "polished" right off cylinder walls, that's just my stance. I love synthetic in my hemi's. But on my old school engines I drive all summer and change once a year....why pay $15 a quart for some fancy oil designed for a 20k mile interval, when the oe specs of these dinosaurs was a 30 wt old school oil. My 2 cents. I'm not a scientist, but some pretty smart guys have pointed out the above to me.
 
Johnny Mac said:
SOME (NOT ALL) Synthetic oils, find leaks where nothing else will. At a molecular level, it's man made, and particles are the same size/shape. Like turning an egg timer full of fine sand over. It'll all find its way down the hole eventually. Picture the same egg timer with coarse, non uniform sand. Doesn't drain as fast....may even stop "leaking" entirely. The extreme slickness of synthetics is what makes them problematic on old school engines. My opinion. And having seen cross hatch "polished" right off cylinder walls, that's just my stance. I love synthetic in my hemi's. But on my old school engines I drive all summer and change once a year....why pay $15 a quart for some fancy oil designed for a 20k mile interval, when the oe specs of these dinosaurs was a 30 wt old school oil. My 2 cents. I'm not a scientist, but some pretty smart guys have pointed out the above to me.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but most of that is wrong.
 
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