which oil to use

-
leblanc

leblanc

member 2883
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
2,214
Reaction score
381
Location
Dieppe, New Brunswick, Can.
It is time for my first oil change, now which oil should I use? I was told that I should not use synthetic because it causes the valve seals to get hard. What is your suggestion? 360 cubes approx. 315 HP...makes for a peppy Dart Sport
 
a few folks ive spoken to say shell rotella,still has the anti wear additives that most oils stopped using.
 
Brad Penn oil. No question. Unless you're running a roller cam, then anything will do.
 
pretty sure the good stuff has been pulled out of shell rotella.....
 
I use the Castrol GTX when it's on sale at Cambodian Tire just swing by the GM dealer and grab a bottle of Delco EOS for about 10 bucks , It has all the zinc you need and more and the 10 bucks is offset by the sale price on the oil { I paid 12 bucks for 4.4L last time it was on cheap}that way you know you're getting the additives you need
 
I'm not sure where you heard that synthetic oil makes your valve seals hard. PAO (Group IV) oils tend to shrink seals but modern synthetics have seal conditioner additives to promote long seal life (see Use seal conditioners as preventive maintenance?). I have heard that some people have experienced oil leaks after trying synthetic oil. Usually, switching back to dino oil (or fixing your worn seals or gaskets) stops the leaks.

As for the ZDDP (antiwear and antioxidant additive), the latest Starburst oils (ILSAC GF-4) are limited to 600-800 ppm of phosphorus (the antiwear component of ZDDP). Heavy Duty Engine Oils still contain plenty of phosphorus and only 1110-1200 ppm is necessary to protect aggressive aftermarket flat-tappet valve trains (see CJ-4/SM HDEO & Flat Tappet Valve Train Protection). 15W-40 CI-4/SL HDEOs typically have the most phosphorus (approaching 1400 ppm) but a good CI-4/SL HDEO contains 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus, which is what CJ-4/SM oils still contain.

Rotella is one of Shell's Fleet Lubrication Products but they don't list phosphorus content on their data sheets. Chevron Delo has much more informative spec sheets and their Delo LE 400 SAE 10W-30 (CJ-4/SM) contains 1100 ppm of phosphorus. I like Esso XD-3 Extra 0W-30 (CJ-4/SM) but it's not available in the USA. Basically, any HDEO will have plenty of anti-wear protection for flat-tappet engines and will have more detergents to keep street-driven engines cleaner than racing oils. Use a CI-4/SL HDEO (with 1200-1400 ppm of phosphorus) if you have a very aggressive aftermarket flat-tappet valve train.

If you add EOS, make sure that the concentration of phosphorus in your engine oil is around 1200 ppm and does not exceed 1400 ppm. More than 2000 ppm of phosphorus leads to camshaft spalling. You'll need to review your high school chemistry notes for the calculations. Or you can just dump a bottle in and hope for the best.

ACCCC Engine Oil Article
 
I use Mobil 1 10w30 in my 67 Dart 273 HP (mobil1.com). Great stuff. 10 years ago it may have hardened the seats/o-rings/seals but not the modern stuff. I would get oil weight based on your climit.

Dave
 
fjr said:
I'm not sure where you heard that synthetic oil makes your valve seals hard. PAO (Group IV) oils tend to shrink seals but modern synthetics have seal conditioner additives to promote long seal life (see Use seal conditioners as preventive maintenance?). I have heard that some people have experienced oil leaks after trying synthetic oil. Usually, switching back to dino oil (or fixing your worn seals or gaskets) stops the leaks.

As for the ZDDP (antiwear and antioxidant additive), the latest Starburst oils (ILSAC GF-4) are limited to 600-800 ppm of phosphorus (the antiwear component of ZDDP). Heavy Duty Engine Oils still contain plenty of phosphorus and only 1110-1200 ppm is necessary to protect aggressive aftermarket flat-tappet valve trains (see CJ-4/SM HDEO & Flat Tappet Valve Train Protection). 15W-40 CI-4/SL HDEOs typically have the most phosphorus (approaching 1400 ppm) but a good CI-4/SL HDEO contains 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus, which is what CJ-4/SM oils still contain.

Rotella is one of Shell's Fleet Lubrication Products but they don't list phosphorus content on their data sheets. Chevron Delo has much more informative spec sheets and their Delo LE 400 SAE 10W-30 (CJ-4/SM) contains 1100 ppm of phosphorus. I like Esso XD-3 Extra 0W-30 (CJ-4/SM) but it's not available in the USA. Basically, any HDEO will have plenty of anti-wear protection for flat-tappet engines and will have more detergents to keep street-driven engines cleaner than racing oils. Use a CI-4/SL HDEO (with 1200-1400 ppm of phosphorus) if you have a very aggressive aftermarket flat-tappet valve train.

If you add EOS, make sure that the concentration of phosphorus in your engine oil is around 1200 ppm and does not exceed 1400 ppm. More than 2000 ppm of phosphorus leads to camshaft spalling. You'll need to review your high school chemistry notes for the calculations. Or you can just dump a bottle in and hope for the best.

ACCCC Engine Oil Article
Click to expand...

thanks for posting this. i saved all the pages and will try to figure it all out...
 
TheGreenSlime said:
I recently switched over to Swepco http://www.swepcousa.com/
Click to expand...

Swepco describes their oils as "High VI solvent extracted paraffinic base stocks". I believe this means that they use Group I base stocks with lots of Viscosity Index Improver additives. Better oils today use Group II and higher base stocks. Group I oils are what were typically available to our cars when they were new and Groups II oils started to become more common in the 1990s. Group III oils are generally the synthetics you find on store shelves (Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol Syntec, etc). Group IV oils (PAO) and Group V (usually POE) are what many people consider to be a true synthetics.

Modern tribology handbook, Volume 1
 
fjr said:
Swepco describes their oils as "High VI solvent extracted paraffinic base stocks". I believe this means that they use Group I base stocks with lots of Viscosity Index Improver additives. Better oils today use Group II and higher base stocks. Group I oils are what were typically available to our cars when they were new and Groups II oils started to become more common in the 1990s. Group III oils are generally the synthetics you find on store shelves (Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol Syntec, etc). Group IV oils (PAO) and Group V (usually POE) are what many people consider to be a true synthetics.

Modern tribology handbook, Volume 1
Click to expand...


Yeah I was wondering about that, but they're supposed to have a really good additive package that contains moly plus a lot of the Porsche 911 racers use it - and air cooled engines aren't exactly nice to oil. SWEPCO gear oil is just about the only thing that will keep a Porsche transaxle alive. The true synthetics (I thought it was class IV) are ester based and that's what swells BUNA-N or natural rubber seals but is also known for sticking to everything. I repair high vacuum pumps (very high speed instruments on ceramic ball bearings) and some are lubed with an ester oil.

An interesting fact that you probably know, but the synthetic oil was invented by the Germans in WWII because they had a hard time getting crude.

Thanks for posting some great info.
 
I've been told by a few engine builders that the Valvoline 15w 40 Diesel oil has all the additives needed that was removed from the standard oil and has better viscosity when hot that average oils and works great in high performance street engines and mild drag racing engines.

I have not looked into it for myself yet but a friend just told me that is what he uses in his car also.
 
Well all the hear say aside....I know for FACT Schaeffers oil has all the zinc needed and says so right on the bottle.

I've used Schaeffer oil since I was 17yrs old, Now 30yrs old and my engines are fast, run hard, but stay cool and stay together with no cams going flat.

No issues with weather and condensation, it's compatible with stock to race, with the exception of catalytic convertors witch they have a line of oil for, for instance the 9000 series which is synthetic compatible with new cars catalytic convertors and go's a minimum of 9000 miles before change and can go 14-17000 miles.
This was tested by Darrel dotwieler who works for the company and is a good friend of mine, he uses his own cars/trucks to sample oils at various milage to then take back to their lab and begin analysis.

He runs a built 71 240z, 71 d100 318 he delivers with, and his new pos compact car, I don't like the compacts very much.lol
 
I've been running ordinary Valvoline 10w40 with 1/4 bottle of Lucas TB Zinc Plus. I've had issues with running race oil in street engines in the past as it doesn't seem to deal well with condensation (especially in cold weather). That's a concern since I don't tear them down yearly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top