Which pistons?

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R3dplanet

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This summer it will be time to rebuild my 273. Like many before me, I would like to rebuild it as a Commando, or at least something much like it. My machinist has done this before and he's more than competent. But he tells me that the biggest problem is getting forged pistons, and even then I need to decide whether to find domed or flat pistons.

So here's a question: Does anyone make forged pistons for my 273? Should I be looking for domed or flat?

I'm not looking to go nuts with the car. I'll never race it, but I would like to get what I can out of it without losing much poise.

Thanks!
 
Forged pistons of the type you're looking for (pop-up for the 10.5 compression) can be had from a number of aftermarket companies such as Ross, Diamond, J E and Venolia.

Couple of questions here;

1. Are you sure you want 10.5:1 compresion? If you're boring your engine at all, and will likely have the block decked and the heads resufaced, with all that cutting, you could end up with 11:1 compression if you buy OEM-configured "pop-up's" with the little dome on top, as the original Comandos had.

That's probably too much compression for pump gas... even 93 octane. Early Mopar combustion chambers aren't very forgiving of low octane... and 93 octane is low compared to what these engines were designed for.

2. Are you going to use forced induction, nitrous oxide, or run it 7,000+ rpm?

If you answered "no" to all of those questions, why not use a flat top, hypereutectic or cast piston? Much cheaper, priobably lighter, and easier to find.

3. If you're going to bore this engine, buy new pistons and rings, and have it balanced (good idea with replacement pistons), have the rods rebuilt, and a valve job, you're probably going to end up spending as much or more money as you'd spend putting a 360 Magnum crate motor in the car, which would give you hydraulic roller tappets, and a TON more power. It's virtually a bolt-in. You'd have to get an intake manifold, but I think nearly everything else will fit (accessories, etc.)

It's visually very similar to a 273 and the tranny bolts up, if it's an automatic. Dunno about the sticks.

Lots less work and probably less money if you get the 320HP version. No ZDDP worries about a flat-tappet cam going "flat" and more power than you would realize out of a 273 unless it were built pretty radical....

Food for thought....

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
 
Check with Egge Machine for cast pistons allthough their new website doesn't have part numbers listed for those pistons. I would contact them.
Another place I've found that has HP273's listed is Flatlander Racing.
Their applications offer forged pistons in standard to +.060 over in any choice of compression. They also have all other components available including Isky and Schneider solid lifter camshafts. toolmanmike
 
Bill, would you have a link? I've never seen anybody make a 273 piston fordged or cast, ever. Egge will make them in a cast piston for you at a reasonable price.
I know the companys Bill mentioned will make what ever you want, it just will cost you alot if they do not have it in stock or have to make it from scratch.
 
Right. Here's a bit more information about the car if it helps at all. The Barracuda is almost totally original, with the exception of an Edelbrock D4B intake and matching Edelbrock four barrel carb. It has electronic ignition, power steering, and newly installed front disc brakes with a power booster. Somewhere along the way it was converted from a three on the tree to a four on the floor.

I've kept and cleaned all of the original parts because it's something of an heirloom car. I'm the second owner, and I have all of the original receipts including the bill of sale. (Side note: The bill sale has a note from the salesman the owner struck a hard bargain: a side view mirror in exchange for the standard steering wheel, not the sport steering wheel.)

The car itself has about 110,000 miles. The main problem is that it sat for a long, long time in a garage before I bought it. Now it has a new interior, but nothing overwhelming.

Anyway, it's just not the kind of car that I really want to dig into and modify. I know that I could pop in a 318 or 340 for a lot cheaper than to rebuild the 273 as I want to, so my scope in the project is keep it looking original and at least keep the numbers all matching. I don't have any plans to sell the car, but I want to keep it reasonably true to itself.

I answer to Bill's questions, I'll never race it, there will never be turbos, supercharges, NO2, or anything exotic and I seriously doubt it will ever see 7,000 rpm. My understanding that 10.x compression would be ideal for the motor at 93 octane, which is what I feed it now, and that higher compression (11.x) would not be advisable. I do not intend to bore the cylinders unless it is necessary or easier to get pistons for a larger bore.

I'm certainly envious of hydraulic lifters, but I don't think I can justify putting in a Magnum engine just to have them.

I hope this helps.
 
If your desire is to keep the 273 in there for whatever reason I see nothing at all wrong with that. It's a great engine, and from what rumblefish360 said, it looks like Egge would surely be the way to go as regards pistons. Custom-built, forged pistons from any of the places I suggested are likely to cost upwards of $500.00 a set. Flat tops would probably give you the desired 10:1 compression, or thereabouts. I don't think you're going to need the pop-ups, and that fact MAY reduce the costs.

If you want hydraulic lifters, just get yourself a hydraulic grind cam (hydraulic cams are ground without the necessary "clearance ramps" that solid lifter cams have,) and a new set of hydraulic lifters, some "EOS" ZDDP-laden assembly-lube and zowie..... you have hydraulics! No more pesky valve adjustments!!!

A bone-stock 340 cam would probably work well in this engine, if you are able to keep the compression up around 10:1.

Good luck with this project; it sounds like a really neat car!!!

Bill.n Conway, Arkansas
 
No, rumblefish360, I don't have a link to any of those piston manufacturers because I've never had the necessity of buying forged pistons.

That may come to an end, and I may be dealing with these folks at Ross, J-E, and/or Venolia one of these days, as my forced-induction motor cries out for a decent set of forged slugs. I'm extremely timing and boost-limited with the cast-piston setup I now have.

Funds.... that is the problem! Always is....

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
 
This information is off Flatlanders Web site

0100-HP 273
1964-69 3.625 Forged pistons (any comp), w/moly rings (std-60), gasket set, main, riod & cam bearings, oil pump, freeze plugs, lifters (specify barrel, dumbbell, mech or hyd), timing set, performance wrist pins (no cam) $699.

What I found is that you can get either the forged dome piston or a forged flat top. SRP makes the pistons for stock/super stock racers.


PM me and I can give you some information on what I did. I currently have a project car with a hot 273. I am gathering parts now for another 273. I'll be more than happy to share that information with you.
 
Thanks Bill. Good advice IMO.

Good luck on the build. Your right yet again, MONEY is allways a problem. LOL
 
I have flat tops in my 273 that was rebuilt before I got it. It measured out to be 7.7 to 1 with 65 cc heads. The pistons were .050 in the hole. It has closed chambered heads so even at 0 deck it would have 8.4 to 1. I plan on milling the heads to 60cc and decking the block and I'll have around 8.9.
If I was to build it for more performance I'd get dome pistons, either custom from Ross etc. or the cast ones from Egge and mill the domes to get the compression I want.
 
Spanky, Congratulations to you for keeping your car the way it should be.
Most people don't understand the importance of originality. I should have bought a 2 door post car with no motor so I could hot rod it without ruining it.
I really like hot rods but I have much respect for those that choose to keep their cars as they rolled off the assembly line. Keep us posted on your progress. We're both in the same boat so to speak. I will rebuild my 273 when time and money allow and have no regrets. I hope when I get ready someone
will have pistons available. I should buy a set of 30 overs' while I can still get them. Everything else is standard issue LA parts. Good luck and pm me if you want to compare notes. toolmanmike
 
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