Why cars rust

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HotLines

HotLines

Realist - Free Thinker
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I been a car person ever since I could remember and growing up in New York is no different from almost anywhere.

I honestly believe that neglect has more to do with rusting then the weather or the way any of the states take care of their roads when there's snow as I have had my 64 Signet which was bought in New York and for the first 20 something years of its life, it lived in NY, however it was garaged and well taken care of, washed, waxed, interior cleaned, underside washed and rust free. Ive owned around 12 Porsche's which were bought between NY, NJ and PA and all were at least 20 years old and rust free. There are not many persons who would take care of their car and baby it, body and interior the way real car people do, so in reality the majority of car buyers actually let it go and are not really car people, you know them and we've all met them. Even collectors play games with knowledge they believe they have as some only have respect for the green and not for the automobile.

While living in Canada during the late 70's and driving an old Ford custom pickup, my girl friends father told me to have the underside of the truck sprayed with oil for the winter so the salted roads wouldn't rust the chassis, he was into strange stuff and experimental air planes and gliders.

I'll wager you that there are many ways we can take care of all aspects of the car in order for it not to rust either when new or again after the metal is restored. Just like the secrets of race engines, there's probably a hundred things we all should know in regards to this but whether or not, some will take the easy way out and sleep on it.
 
Road salt and improper designs which trap moisture are the biggest threat to the car.
The manufacturers have really improved on the design and metals used. Of course, some have done a better job than others.
Here are pictures of an 1997 Dodge van that spent it's entire life in Jax and always parked on pavement.

Tranny.jpg



Rear.jpg


It is now in Ohio parked in a garage and only comes out on nice days.
 
I agree,it only takes one time for a new car to be driven down a snowy salty road for corrosion to start.Even if you wash the underside of the car thoroughly it still gets in every nuck and cranny and is trapped for life.Oiling or just parking indoors is your best bet for the winter.
 
So you don't believe that spraying the underside with oil or a non corrosive solvent before the salt is put down will help keep corrosion to a standstill or there aren't others with any other secrets so to speak in regards to rust?

If everyone were to believe that, we'd all be driving rusted cars, but luckily there are some as I've said in the original post that actually are car persons and have many solutions that the average car owner fails to realize in regards to almost any problem and these solutions aren't of value to those who'll always find a way to make a joke of it while asking questions down the road like why is the sky blue :)
 
when i worked for a shop in cali not more than a year ago... we had a mid 00's car come in with a problem
everytime they would fill it it would smell like gas...

so i lifted it up and the entire bottom side was like swiss cheese... control arms had holes in them...

the filler neck rusted away and was leaking on the ground...

looked at the plate and it was from NY...

we just had a donor car come in for one of our SS Hemi Darts, it was from maryland or something, i had to do both .25's, trunk and both x-tensions, bottom half of the rear window lip area, both front floor pans, and more in the engine bay...

F**k back-East cars... just crazyness
 
HotLines said:
growing up in New York is no different from almost anywhere..
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THIS is simply not true. I grew up in the inland NW, and for MOST of my life, Idaho did not use any sort of chemical or salt compounds on the roads. Cars in AZ and most of CA can be expected to generally outlast those cars that showed up from a great part of the wintery --salty--E coast, and other areas--such as near heavy mining--could be expected not to fare as well.

I doubt that MOST of us --when I grew up-- ever thought of washing the bottoms of our cars, except maybe those on dirty, muddy roads.

THERE ARE definately cars which were designed poorly. Early 70's Chevy pickups come to mind--there was some sort of natural cavity up in the inner/ outer fender area which was a natural trap for road splash and mud.

I doubt that 10% of the cars in my home area were undercoated, or ever had ANY special treatment--cleaning, coating, or otherwise to the bottoms of the cars.
 
"Rustoleum"....it's US or RUST the underside of my 1990 GMC 4X PU looks pretty close to the van previously pictured........ During the muscle car ERA, automobiles undersides were essentially painted with the cheapest lowest grade Lacquer just to make it either black or similar to body color. For lack of a better comparison a grade of paint similar to what comes in a rattle can. One of my very first jobs, was to wash all the "front line" new cars every day, got out of school at 3 and washed till 6:30. sometimes they would switch out the wheels and we got to see the underside of many brand new cars. we also got to watch them being unloaded from the huge car carriers. pretty much every single car we saw back then had some kind of rustalready going on as they were being backed off the trailers. for cars that had been washed several times it was far worse, and these cars had not seen 60 seconds of road time!! Foreign cars were the absolute worst for this.....except for VW's and no body knew why? Later came to discover that VW was the only manufacturer that used the same grade of paint on the underside as they did on the upside, in fact it was the same paint because they were essentially painted stem to stern top to bottom all at the same time...Later this led to the domestics actually DIPPING their cars in primer.....point being as automobiles progressed thru their initial years then thru the war years they underwent many changes. The steel on some of the first vehicles was THICK, I mean REALLY thick and that is why they didnt worry too much about coating for protection paint was initially for appearance! As war broke out metals became thinner, still no real protection was necessary because they were still pretty thick up into the 50's, then "style" hit the scene and all the outrageous fins & curves could not really be made without thinning out the metal quite a bit to make the parts and keep the stamping dies all the way through a build year. the thinner the unprotected metal....the more the likely hood of rust. RUST is what metal is NATURALLY supposed to do when it is left unprotected....cycle of life stuff. in certain regions and under certain climates rust is far less prevalent but not omitted. in other regions and climates it is more prevalent.....protect the metal reduce the introduction and continuance of rust. you can never eliminate it!
Things you can do to reduce it, especially in the rust belt and in heavy salt water areas.
for classic cars
1. inner panel spraying with paraffin ( or oil )
2. undercoat with a tar , wax or oil based product ( needs to be redone every so often)
3. undercoat with a catalyzed paint
4. cat paint or powder coat the frame
5. DO not use water to wash your car!! use detail mist

for daily vehicles
1. ziebart or some similar kind of rustproofing
2. undercoating with tar, rubberized product, wax/paraffin
3. visit a car wash weekly that has a bottom sprayer

ALL you can REALLY do is delay the inevitable and fix it when it happens

my two centavos
 
67Dart273 THIS is simply not true.

Actually the first sentence was about growing up and it is true whether the northwest or the northeast as it just depends if its city or country life as its just growing up

Granted most all California and Arizona cars last longer and I lived in California and worked in Arizona, but this post wasn't about that, it was in regards to what can be done to prevent rust and how one takes care of their car from day one.
Not everywhere in NY do they used salt on the roads and ever since I could remember as I lived in a population of less then a hundred persons right outside of Albany by 20 miles and within a couple miles from Lebanon Valley dragway, I've seen farm implements and older cars and trucks last as long as the farmer who owned them. Most persons take for granted that NYr's all live in the city and I know this because I live in southern Oregon and hear it every day. Living here is a love hate relationship because of what I put up with but in reality reminds me of home. There are only a couple differences between NY and Oregon, one is the education and I'm sure there's gotta be another but I can't place my hand on it at the moment, what I think is is though is having six thousand chuches for six hundred people. I've lived in or traveled most of this country because of what I've done for a living and can assure you I have seen and pinstriped cars that looked factory which were driven and not stored during the winter yet persons who owned then have taken precautionary ways to prevent rust.

As I read here on FABO, I see lots of rusted cars being restored for all over this country including Canada and from what I first said, this could have been prevented just like my Signet as it too was a NY car for the first 20 or so years.

I been living out here for fifteen years and have with me two cars I brought with me from NY both are rust free and the motorhome I drove here was also and made of steel. I sold it sometime ago and it was a 1972 Cortez front wheel drive, monocoque constructed motor home which cruised flawlessly even though it had a 455 Olds engine.

Anyway, there's my life story and if you don't believe there is a solution to the rust problem, then I'll be thankful that Thomas Edison wasn't born and raised in the Northwest or we'd all be lighting our homes with gas lamps
 
HotLines said:
if you don't believe there is a solution to the rust problem, then I'll be thankful that Thomas Edison wasn't born and raised in the Northwest or we'd all be lighting our homes with gas lamps
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You sure seem to be able to infer things that were not meant, said, or implied.

My comment was as I thought you meant it--you were talking about rusting cars, and so was I, not "growing up in general."

I never said there was NOT a solution

What I SAID was my perceptions as to how things WERE

I can STILL remember JUST AFTER I bought my 70 sixpack RR--a car that had been bought from Oregon and spent it's short life to that point in CA----the car was only a couple of years old, and one morning I left the barracks early at Miramar to see what turned out to be---a 70 Satellite from the E--New York or New Jersey--and against the rising sun I could see LIGHT completely through the quarters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!! WHY !!!! Because this 2 year old (or less) car had holes completely rusted through the sides of the rear quarters INTO THE TRUNK and the SUN was shining in one side AND OUT THE OTHER.


I also remember helping a nice young gal tune up her 70? Chivvy Vega, and we were ready to shut the hood. "Wait" says she, "I need to get my special tools." Out from the back she comes with 4 huge cheap "bin" screwdrivers. The car was already starting to rust, and the fenders were "falling inwards!!!!! You had to shut the hood some, then jam the 4 drivers in the slot to wedge the hood between the fenders!!!
 
67Dart273 said:
You sure seem to be able to infer things that were not meant, said, or implied.

My comment was as I thought you meant it--you were talking about rusting cars, and so was I, not "growing up in general."

I never said there was NOT a solution

What I SAID was my perceptions as to how things WERE

I can STILL remember JUST AFTER I bought my 70 sixpack RR--a car that had been bought from Oregon and spent it's short life to that point in CA----the car was only a couple of years old, and one morning I left the barracks early at Miramar to see what turned out to be---a 70 Satellite from the E--New York or New Jersey--and against the rising sun I could see LIGHT completely through the quarters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!! WHY !!!! Because this 2 year old (or less) car had holes completely rusted through the sides of the rear quarters INTO THE TRUNK and the SUN was shining in one side AND OUT THE OTHER.


I also remember helping a nice young gal tune up her 70? Chivvy Vega, and we were ready to shut the hood. "Wait" says she, "I need to get my special tools." Out from the back she comes with 4 huge cheap "bin" screwdrivers. The car was already starting to rust, and the fenders were "falling inwards!!!!! You had to shut the hood some, then jam the 4 drivers in the slot to wedge the hood between the fenders!!!
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Vegas would rust on the showroom floor:angry7: and I agree it has a lot to do with how the car is made, my neighbor bought a new impala, a few years ago, she kept it clean, one day she gets in and her high heel goes thru the floor, the car was about 2 years old at this time, she takes it to the dealer, the factory forgot to seal the seams, they wanted to give her a new car, and she told them to go over to the dodge dealer and buy one, it took a lawyer but she got her money back and has been driving a mopar since, in fact she still has her advenger r/t that she got when she gave up gm, she keeps it clean and drives it in the winter and the car still looks new.
 
not to get off topic but was thinking of spraying underside of lawnmower deck with some type of undercoating because that seems to go wrong with most mowers arond fla the decks rust out
 
New cars made out of recycled steel don't have the rust on them, it's actually already in them.
 
Dart-swinger said:
In Indiana the only thong that really works that I have seen is Rust Check.

I've had numerous cars in the family that lived long rust free lives beacuse of them,normally try to have it done every two or three years even though they recommend every year
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i live in eastern canada and rust is an everyday challenge around here .being a mechanic i see all sorts of rust (more than i care to) and the best way to beat the rust is undercoating with RUST CHECK yearly. i get my vehicles done and is well worth the time and money if you want to preserve your car. around here they use more salt than is needed in most cases and is generaly humid.so letting your car sit is the worst thing you can do, and everything seizes and rots out in no time
 
A statement from a Michigan guy "Rust never sleeps" If you drive in the early morning salt of a fresh snow in Michigan near the Motor City you will have a car that is white and sparkly before you leave work. The rust cannot be stopped on a car like this because even the black top road turns white and sparkly.
 
iggys68dart said:
not to get off topic but was thinking of spraying underside of lawnmower deck with some type of undercoating because that seems to go wrong with most mowers arond fla the decks rust out
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iggys.... that is because 1.you are near salt water 2. as a lawnmower actually does it s job the paint is essentially "whipped" off of the underside of the deck exposing bare metal....bare metal & salt water atmosphere=rust
A friend in Michigan has all his NEW mowers media blasted on the underside then spray coats them with POR15, he does the same for his snowblowers..... he has replaced several motors on his machines ( he has like 25 of each its his business) but rarely replaces the decks or the shoots.....every 2 -3 years he media blasts them and re-coats them.Nothing stops rust but he seems to have slowed it down to an acceptable rate
 
A few years ago, I had a 67 Belvedere shipped out from Oregon. I paid $750 for the car, so it was no show piece. When I picked it up, It was totally rust free, in the trunk, under the hood, bumpers were still nice... This car had spent the last few years under a pine tree, and had about 4" of wet pine needles stuck all over it, it had obviously not been pampered. All I did was take it to a car wash, (still on the trailer I picked it up on), wash it and bring it home. I looked at it a week later, and the bumpers had started to rust! In the few years it has been stored here, it has developed numerous surface rust spots. Ths underside is still nice, as I oiled the snot out of it the day after I got it. This car has NEVER been driven out of the yard. I believe we get alot of acid rain here in Vermont.
 
the new spray on ice preventer is more corrisive than salt.

Here in Indiana they use it long before it snows, once it gets wet that crap is all over the car. The combonation of cheap recycled steel and the salt it is going to rust.

I had an oil filter rust out on my old plow truck after one season of plowing and letting the truck sit all summer. Let's see, it was filled with OIL

The only way to have a rust free car would be to have it in a climate controled room, never get wet, every single metal piece painted when it was clean, dry & rustfree.

My 81 Imperial is rust free on the surface, but I had it on the lift and my mom ask why her car had rust on it. The driveshaft and other steel parts that are not painted had rust on them. 15,000 miles, stored winters (never driven in snow) driven in the rain 4 times in the 1st 7 years. Has been washed maybe 3 or 4 times since 1993.

There is drains in the panels for water to run thru. they get clogged up with junk and that causes rust.

the comment about keeping one clean and doing proper maintenance is correct to a point. But if you drive a car on salted roads there are places you cannot get to and that is where it will start to rust.
 
magnumdart said:
New cars made out of recycled steel don't have the rust on them, it's actually already in them.
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This one seems to be pretty common. I can't see how recycling steel has anything to do with rusting. Steel rusts when the iron combines with oxygen. It's called oxydizing and it is common to lots of materials. Fire is the result of fuels combining with oxygen, it's a natural process. When iron ore comes out of the ground, it has had plenty of time to combine with oxygen and it is probably as close to pure rust that you could imagine. The refining process that eventually produces steel for your auto panels rids the iron of impurities and compounds in carbon to produce steel. It's this process which determines the quality of the finished process and recycled steel is probably better raw material than iron ore.
 
I've sprayed the inside of the doors, inside of fenders and over the wheel wells on my 90 Dodge truck every spring & fall since it was new. I am the original owner. It doesn't get driven much anymore, but it used to go out daily as it was my only transportation until 2006. It has over 200K miles on it right now and NO RUST anywhere.
When it was about 15 years old the power door lock motor needed to be replaced in the drivers door, and when I removed the door panel there was a layor of this thick grease looking stuff in the bottom of the door from all the coats of WD40 I had sprayed in through the drain holes. I still spray it down twice a year with the stuff. I use a whole can in the spring (after a full rinse with a garden hose) and a whole can in the fall. Works great, it's easy to apply and the stuff is cheap.
I was into old Vettes for years, and they have a big problem with chassis rot up here. I bought only cars with solid chassis', but whenever I bought another old Vette, I would coat the inside of the frame with Marvil Mystery Oil. It is thin enough to spray out of a syphon gun on an air compressor. Once that is done, you can drive it in the Atlantic Ocean without worry! LOL I used to park the car on the grass and spray it down. Insert the gun through the stamped holes in the frame and blast away. The MMO would atomize and get blown into all the small passages. You could see it drip out of holes 7 feet away from where the syphon gun was inserted. I just moved the gun around until I felt I had the whole thing coated well.
I recommend both of these practices to anyone who plans to keep a car for a long time. People saw my truck completely stripped of paint in my garage in 2007 when I was repainting it, and couldn't believe there was no rust, and you could see there was no bodywork done. There was no primer on it to "hide" anything. The truck was in a bare metal state in my garage from March until August.

George
 
About 12 years ago I saw a 1971 Duster for sale in Warren MI. Slant 6, auto, rubber floor, stripped down car. The owner was outside and I got the story on the car. He was an engineer and the car was a bet, he bet his friends that he could keep a car from rusting for 10 years. He told me that all he did was to keep it clean, and take it off the road in the fall and not drive it again until May. He drove it every day from May to October for 10 years, never parking indoors, even in the winter it would just sit uncovered in the driveway. Basically all he did was to keep salt from touching it. He won the bet, and kept the car for another 18 years. It still looked damn good in the late 90's when I saw it.
 
WildCat said:
the new spray on ice preventer is more corrisive than salt.

the comment about keeping one clean and doing proper maintenance is correct to a point. But if you drive a car on salted roads there are places you cannot get to and that is where it will start to rust.
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Oh no, my Mustang is rusting !!
Had to go to Ohio on family business in Dec 08 and this is what my car looked like after 3 miles of salted roads. The Interstate was dry.
The next morning it went to the self-serve car wash and got the bottom flushed out after being jacked up. Then it rained for the next week so the car got completely flushed.
1000 miles of hard rain will get any salt out.

PoorCar.jpg
 
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