why does the over center spring have to be removed

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beerboy

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I am having a diaphragm clutch installed as we speak, I went to the shop to see what was happening, the car is a 73 duster 340 that had a borg and beck 3 finger unit in that was a bear to use in traffic. any how they got the clutch in but the guy said he was having trouble getting into second, so he showed me the adjusting rod and says it is worn out. I could see some wear, but does not look to far off from a new one, he says it should not be oval shaped, but a new one is oval not round , he said you could not tell it was worn until the retaining clip was removed to see it. also I am not sure if he removed the over center under dash spring, that should come out with a diaphragm unit--- correct? could this be the problem and not the adjusting rod??? thanks
 
Most these I've worked on had plenty of adjustment to take care of any wear in the rod hole. The over-center spring "tries" to help release the clutch, so it would not prevent release, it would, rather, cause slippage in gear
 
The over center spring will cause the pedal not to return but like 67 Dart said it shouldn't effect the disengagement. Each one of the rods have a oblong shaped holes which add up to the pedal free play. Adjust the linkage so that the throw out bearing just barely clears the pressure plate fingers. The fingers don't require much movement to release the disc. You may have mismatched components if it doesn't release somewhere in the middle of the pedal stroke when it is adjusted properly. tmm
 
just had a McLeod diaphragm clutch installed in my 73 340 duster. I noticed that they never took out the over center spring. I had a 3 finger borg and beck in there before that was super stiff pedal, any how I noticed the pedal only has to go a bit over half way down to the floor to shift it. also the pedal comes back up real fast when you are leaving from a dead stop, is this because I am not use to it or is it from the guys not taking that over center spring out?? from what I have read here, when you put a diaphragm set up in the spring should be removed. need some help here thanks much
 
Yes pull the over center spring out with a diaphragm clutch. Be careful while popping it off, don't let it hit you in the face.
 
i sort of new to this clutch stuff, that's why i had some one put the new one in, so if i take that spring out the pedal will work more as it should? i am assuming that nothing bad will happen when the spring is removed? like the pedal staying to the floor or what ever? just that i heard these are are not fun to install!!
 
new to the clutch workings. why when you put in a diaphram clutch does the over center spring have to be removed? they never took mine out and the pedal seems screwy.clutch seems to disengage when just over half way to floor then its stiff from that point to the floor, from a dead stop it seems to come back up real fast. is this from the spring still being in there??
 
My centerforce diaphragm pressure plate requires very little foot pressure. I think the overcenter spring would actually disengage the clutch slightly if left in. By the way, Centerforce specifically states to remove the overcenter spring.
 
rklein383 said:
My centerforce diaphragm pressure plate requires very little foot pressure. I think the overcenter spring would actually disengage the clutch slightly if left in. By the way, Centerforce specifically states to remove the overcenter spring.
Click to expand...

Exactly so. The over center spring "tries" to press the clutch pedal DOWN and helps release it. A diaphragm does not need as much pedal pressure, so the the over center spring detracts from holding pressure, and in some cases at high RPM, might prevent engagement and cause slipping

The spring has NOTHING to do with "where" in the pedal travel the clutch disengages / engages.
 
should I remove it then? I mean , I had this McLeod 75109 put in to ease the pedal effort compared to the b and b that was in there, will the pedal go more towards the floor with the spring out? it goes down easy then at a certain point I can feel the spring start grabbing and the pedal has to be forced to near the floor. that is the purpose of that spring , pushing down , correct? so with it out the pedal should feel different? correct? thanks much
 
Mine is in with a LUK replacement clutch diaphram type. Nice easy pedal and doesn't slip at hi rpm.
 
From the symptoms, I think the OP's pedal operation is not due to the OC spring being in; it should make the pedal to the floor easier, not harder. I would first suspect that the return spring under the car is too short in the coil length and is excessively strong. Look to see if that spring is a short spring that is very thick; that will cause the issue described. A pix of that spring would be useful. These springs get changed/lost, and sometimes 'just what is lying around that looks like a spring' gets put in. Am trying to also think what might be wrong in the lever, etc., that would cause this....drawing a blank right now.


When properly installed the OC spring does not tend to disengage the clutch on its own; it helps pull the pedal to the floor when the pedal is past 1" or so from the top of the travel; it helps pull the pedal up when above the 1" point. That point around 1" from the top of the travel is the 'center' in 'overcenter'. The OC spring should be at its maximum stretch at that 'center' point.

An excessively strong return spring is not needed; the return spring under the car needs to be just strong enough to make the pedal go back past the 'center' point when releasing the clutch.
 
just seems that every one I have talked to is saying that the OC spring most definitely should be removed when diaphragm type clutch is put in. its really hard to describe how this pedal is working with the spring in. seems like it engages it just about up to its top most position, and disengages about half way to the floor, when you push it down to the floor its easy half way down, then gets harder to put it to the floor, that's why I am wondering if all this is due to the OC spring being in there
 
I don,t want to harp on this , just want to give a better description of what my clutch pedal is doing . as said in another post I had a diaphragm unit put . the clutch engages from a dead stop when is just about to the top. pushing down to shift , pedal about half down and it disengages pushes easy. but after half way down , it real hard to push down to the floor, like I said in other post , OC SPRING was not removed. is this causing this weird pedal action or is it some thing to do with the clutch spring that is under the car and hooked to the bell housing?? just trying to give more detail regarding this --thanks for any info
 
If you have a diaphragm clutch, remove it. Period.
You wont have that hitch, or over center,feeling when you press the clutch in.
Much smoother without the spring.
Nobody uses the borg warner clutch anymore anyways.
Remove it, and chuck it as far as you can.
Or put it on ebay for something like $350.00 :)
 
I am very inclined to think it is in the spring at the bellhousing from your description. (Unless the overcenter spring is really fouled up.) Can you take and post photos of both springs? The other thing could be some sort of bidning in the linkage due to something being bent.
 
If your going to ask the question, you have to trust our answer.

If you have a diaphragm clutch.....Yes,Take the spring off.

It isnt going to be easy to get out, but it should be removed.
You will be much happier with the feel of the clutch.

See that little orange car to the left ?
Factory Hurst 4spd car,now with a diaphragm clutch.
You guessed it, OC spring removed.

You picking up what we're laying down ?
 
And some people wonder why they get snarky answers. The answer will be the same no matter how many times or threads you ask it.
 
promise ------last post on this just wanted to describe the problem with the pedal a little better!!!!
 
Then take five minutes and remove the spring. It's supposed to be out anyway.
 
Take it out. It's not supposed to be in there with the clutch you have. If after you remove it you want to screw with the lower spring, you can. The lower spring is there to pull the throw out bearing away from the fingers. The pressure plate causes the pedal feel and spring pressure for the most part. tmm
 
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