Why Is It?

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"How do I hook up this MSD?"

No thought to look it up on that thing, the internet, go to the manufactures site for instructions. Nope... Stop being lazy. :)

Where is the OBD port on a 70 Swinger 340? :lol:
 
The inability to troubleshoot goes even deeper than poor training. Analytical skills are longer stressed in our public school systems. Emphasis is placed on “rote” learning to pass standardized tests so schools can demonstrate that they are meeting state and federal standards. Rusty Rat Rod mentioned the troubleshooting “trees” that he was taught in school. A good example of this is “ignition, carburetion, compression,” which was a mantra I learned in hig school auto mechanics classes. When I was a Snap-On dealer I visited a lot of shops every day, and I was amazed at how many mechanics even then, would replace parts based not on trouble-shooting, but, rather “what it usually was.” There are often other underlying causes, for this, such as poor reading skills. I was bringing a van load of students back from a state VICA (Vocational Industrial Clubs of America - now Skills USA) competition late one night when our district supplied van suffered a massive electrical failure on I-10 in central Phoenix. We literally nearly coasted to a service station near the off-ramp. I could see a Snap-On MT 552 (similar to a Sun VAT-40) sitting in an open service bay. When I asked the on-duty mechanic to look at it he told me he didn’t have the tools. Incredulous, I pointed out the AVR tester sitting nearby and after much hemming and hawing, he admitted he didn’t know how to use it. After informing him that I had sold many of those testers and trained my customers how to use them, he asked me to show him. It immediately became apparent that he couldn’t read the instruction manual sitting in the accessory tray.

It’s too bad we have come to see “vocational education” as a dirty word, because it was a great way to teach analytical thinking skills. The acquisition of those skills apply to everyday life. Unfortunately, our instant access to all the world’s knowledge via the internet, makes them seem unnecessary to some.
 
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With the internet at your fingertips, you can now embarass yourself in record time lol.
 
azaustin said:
My bad. That was supposed to be “unnecessary” in the last sentence. Like Lefty71said…
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You can fix it. If you clock on "EDIT" in the lower left of that post, you can go in and make changes. I knew what you meant from the context though.
 
Thanks. I could probably learn more about this website if I could just get myself to let go of the beans and pull my hand out.
 
ch1ll said:
Cause that’s what mechanics do these days, replace parts. That’s where the money is, so why bother learning diagnostics, they have code readers for that.

Reline a brake shoe? You can do that?
Rewind an armature, how do you do that?
File points? Clean spark plugs?
Rebuild a carburetor? What’s a carburetor?
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I've never rewound a motor, or generator, but I've relined plenty of brake shoes, from passenger car to heavy truck air brake on trailers. And I've turned HUNDREDS of drums and rotors, from Fiats, Vee dubs, to heavy trucks File points? Bet your aZZ I STILL have some points files, and carbs, I used to moonlight when I was at Miramar in the Navy.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I always kinda enjoy threads that start out "My car won't run" or some such, then open the thread and they've replaced several things with no progress.....and NO diagnosis. When did that become a thing? Do people just like spending unnecessary money? Maybe they would adopt me? I mean seriously, WHY won't people learn to do some simple diagnostics? I guess it's because they want to fix it in a hurry, but in the end, they spend twice the time and money to finally find the trouble and every now and then you see people actually GIVE UP and sell the thing. When did people start not having any sense?
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Same approach to performance. Assemble engine. Race it. Desire 5 tenths quicker. Buy more performance parts. Try again. Want 2 tenths quicker? Buy more performance parts. All the while leaving a full second on the table by not taking the time to tune, and think through the actual first assembly. They get there, just 2000 dollars later in "more performance parts" :D
 
318willrun said:
Same approach to performance. Assemble engine. Race it. Desire 5 tenths quicker. Buy more performance parts. Try again. Want 2 tenths quicker? Buy more performance parts. All the while leaving a full second on the table by not taking the time to tune, and think through the actual first assembly. They get there, just 2000 dollars later in "more performance parts" :D
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You're a tried and true example of tuning to the nth degree. I'd like to see what you could do on a higher budget.
 
^^^The guy with money is not hungry. He just buys parts. He can afford it all.
The guy without money is hungry. He can't buy parts because a loaf of bread is $5.00 and a pound of hamburger is $12.00.
 
hotrod swinger said:
Another problem is that “know-it-allism” is rampant in todays society, especially amongst the 20-45 year age group (I’m 46 lol)
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That's funny and true. We are all always one year on the other side of that line that seperates us from stupid people and know-it-alls no matter how old we are.
 
This thread has inspired me to start writing some troubleshooting articles in the hopes I can convince a few more people to be mechanics instead of parts changers.
 
barbee6043 said:
^^^The guy with money is not hungry. He just buys parts. He can afford it all.
The guy without money is hungry. He can't buy parts because a loaf of bread is $5.00 and a pound of hamburger is $12.00.
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Ain't that the truth?
 
MadScientistMat said:
This thread has inspired me to start writing some troubleshooting articles in the hopes I can convince a few more people to be mechanics instead of parts changers.
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Never happen. LOL If you decide to do it, I'd be a buyer. I'm always lookin to sharpen my skills.
 
Guys asks IF he can fly in and buy my XXXX and drive from here in Tx. back to S.C. I tell him I drive the car just locally, never drove it more than 40 mi at a time. No need to. I tell him it runs good, shifts, good stops good, runs cool, no knock or smoke, except a little at first start up, valve seals old and gone away I bet.

The I explain to him I have owned my Ram 3500 since new in '95. Cummins, will run almost forever, it has 235,000 miles, original alt, radiator, water pump, lift pump, etc replaced a starter once. I have not drove it more than 200 mi at a time in decades, BUT I would drive it to Ca. if I wanted. Would anhything wear out on the trip and need replaced????? Maybe. Would my XXXXXX make it to S.C. without issue????? Probably!!! I ask him. Can you fix it on that trip to S.C. if need be????????????

He says he needs to buy a classic car to make the trip that is GUARANTEED to make it OK!!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :rofl: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:

This conversation happens a lot. :steering: :steering: :steering:
 
barbee6043 said:
Guys asks IF he can fly in and buy my XXXX and drive from here in Tx. back to S.C. I tell him I drive the car just locally, never drove it more than 40 mi at a time. No need to. I tell him it runs good, shifts, good stops good, runs cool, no knock or smoke, except a little at first start up, valve seals old and gone away I bet.

The I explain to him I have owned my Ram 3500 since new in '95. Cummins, will run almost forever, it has 235,000 miles, original alt, radiator, water pump, lift pump, etc replaced a starter once. I have not drove it more than 200 mi at a time in decades, BUT I would drive it to Ca. if I wanted. Would anhything wear out on the trip and need replaced????? Maybe. Would my XXXXXX make it to S.C. without issue????? Probably!!! I ask him. Can you fix it on that trip to S.C. if need be????????????

He says he needs to buy a classic car to make the trip that is GUARANTEED to make it OK!!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :rofl: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:

This conversation happens a lot. :steering: :steering: :steering:
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He can't even get that guarantee off a new car lot. People are stupid.
 
318willrun said:
Same approach to performance. Assemble engine. Race it. Desire 5 tenths quicker. Buy more performance parts. Try again. Want 2 tenths quicker? Buy more performance parts. All the while leaving a full second on the table by not taking the time to tune, and think through the actual first assembly. They get there, just 2000 dollars later in "more performance parts" :D
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I see this all the time and am baffled. Guys come to the track with basically good cars and "it made 900 hp on the dyno" engines and run 12s. Meanwhile my under 600 hp car runs deep in the 9s and I'm thinking, how fast would I be with 900 hp? Got to sort those rigs out if you want to be fast! More speed parts isn't the answer - tune the ones you have; work the combo. But that takes what has been alluded to throughout this post - you need to know how and why things work to in order to tune (or even simply repair) them properly, and that's acquired by experience.
 
I don't think most people that are having a difficult time taking advice are doing it because they're stupid, lazy or have an ego. Usually it's because they're missing a few prerequisites as far as their automotive knowledge goes. What might seem simple to the person giving the advice can make little sense to the person receiving the advice. Or it can seem so daunting and risky with their skill set that they feel like they could only break their vehicle even further by attempting it.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Not knowing how is one thing. Not knowing how and not listening to those who do know how is another.
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Preach! I was long in the habit of replying to "HALP MY CAR IS BROKEN EVEN THO LOOKIT ALL THE PARTS I'VE REPLACED!!!1!!!1!!!" posts by advising a stop to the money-spending and parts-throwing, and coaching on how to diagnose what's causing the problem(s). If I'd been keeping track, it would be many years since I lost count of times I've been told off and bіtched at for it.
 
toolmanmike said:
I still miss the parts store but like you say, not any more. Give me a catalog rack and turn me loose.
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You, to the counter clerk: "I only see one Anco 12-14 wiper refill on the shelf. Could you please check if you have any more?"

Clerk: "What year, make and model are you working on?"

You: "It doesn't matter, I just gave you the part number. Anco 12-14. It's a 14-inch wiper refill like this what I am holding in my hand."

Clerk: "I need a year, make and model."

You: "Fine, whatever. It's a 1972 Dodge Dart."

Clerk: "Truck or car?"

You: "Dart. It's a car."

Clerk: "What engine?"

You: "It doesn't make any difference! They all used the same wiper! Just pick one!"

Clerk: "I need to know what engine. Does it have the one ninety eight three point two, the two twenty five three point seven, the three eighteen five point two or the three fifty five point seven?"

You: "There's no such a thing as a 350 in a Dart."

Clerk: "Three fifty. Ummm...sorry, we don't have parts for that car."

You: "No, I said it couldn't have a 350 because they never came that way. A 350 is a Chevrolet engine, and this is a Dodge. It has a 225!"

Clerk: "OK a 225...and does it have drum or disc brakes?"

You: "It has 14 inch wiper blades. Anco 12-14s. I can see them on the shelf behind you. Over your left shoulder. Can you please just grab me another one to match this what I have placed on the counter in front of you?"

Clerk: "Uhhhh...I have to check with my manager...and he's on lunch...I could take down your, like, name and number...I guess...if you really want me to. That would require paper...and, like, a writing thing...we have these really kewl headlight blackouts, they look phat if you want to impress the chizzicks and, like, stuff. They're on aisle four."

You: "<unprintable>"

Clerk: "SEH-KUR-AH-TAY!!!!"

Buying_Parts.jpg
 
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