Why trash the rotators?

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PhillH

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So on my build I obviously trashed them, but my question is why? They seem like Ma M was again ahead of her time introducing these, so what gives, why would that be a bad thing, weren't they supposed to keep the exhaust valve cooler, therefor more longevity?
 
Valve rotators work great with leaded gasoline constantly coating the valve/seat junction -- which is ironic, because it was that coating/buildup that the rotators were intended to prevent from building up and holding the valve open. Rotators + unleaded gasoline = valve becomes a grinding wheel against the seat, but that's of no consequence because unleaded gasoline = no buildup to potentially hold the valve open.
 
Chief and AAR, you must think I'm smarter than I am to get and answer from those responses. Dan that makes sense, so would the rotators not do the same for carbon biuld-up? The lead used to cushion the valves, but it built up and caused problems? So did it build up on other areas too, ring lands? I do know that we have hardened valve seats now, I'm just tryng to get a handle on why they would be bad, my thinking is like rotating tires, you would get more milege from a part rotating verses one wearing the same spot constantly? Maybe some people would like to discuss something different and I could learn a little something.
 
The rotators are quite heavy, so when the RPMs go up, that's a lotta mass to start and stop every stroke. Lighter retainers = less reciprocating mass = higher rpm, and less tendency for valve float - same goes for pistons, rods, etc

Every gram of weight reduction in the valvetrain adds 35 to 40 rpm potential to the engine. So, a weight reduction of 10 grams could theoretically add 350 to 400 more rpm to the engine with no other changes to the valvetrain (same springs, etc.).


http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/...-driving-forces-behind-valvetrain-technology/

cheers
 
They limit spring travel and thus valve lift so performance is handicapped. I started removing them from performance builds on Opels almost 40 years ago....I am sure me and everyone else musta completely missed the boat by doing so....#-o
 
It's hard to believe what a few grams will do. Makes sense.


Momentum is what makes the valves float.

Momentum is mass times speed squared... So as speed increases, it "amplifies" that little mass because the speed is squared. That's when a small mass develops more momentum...
 
The short answer is to gain installed height on the valve spring, allowing for more lift at the valve. Weight is also big.
 
Dan that makes sense, so would the rotators not do the same for carbon biuld-up?

Sure, but there's a lot less of that with unleaded fuel and today's oils, too. Basically, the problems that Rotocaps were installed to stave off, are no longer problems.

The lead used to cushion the valves

Not quite "cushion", more like buffer. See here for what the lead actually did in terms of valve protection.

but it built up and caused problems?

Leaded gasoline made a mess inside engines. The lead salts and associated scavenger chemistry coated the combustion chamber & valves, built up under valve seats and in ring lands, fouled spark plugs, and crapped up the engine oil. In extreme cases it attacked valve metal (dished/necked valves are virtually never seen any more now we don't burn lead any more). Once out of the engine, it formed compounds that aggressively ate exhaust systems from the inside out. A longtime engine engineer I know, who spent many years designing many of the Chrysler engines we know and love, told me about a decade ago the popular perception that gasoline lead was some kind of engine-saving wonder is exactly backwards: "It was more like we had to design engines to give good service in spite of the lead in the gasoline".

Leaded gas remained on the market as long as it did because it was a cheap way of obtaining octane ratings, it was made by an industry that bought a lot of lobbyists, and with its widespread availability there was no incentive for automakers to spend the few cents extra to upgrade the exhaust valve and seat materials. Once we figured out leaded gasoline was turning our kids into brain-damaged criminals and poisoning us, about the same time we figured out we needed catalytic converters, gasoline lead went away and a bunch of stuff got better (and Rotocaps became obsolete).

Unfortunately, a bunch of other stuff got worse—primitive emission controls made cars run poorly—hence the popular misconception that unleaded gas spoiled everyone's fun. Today's cars wouldn't run nearly as well as they do if we still had leaded fuel.

I'm just tryng to get a handle on why they would be bad, my thinking is like rotating tires, you would get more milege from a part rotating verses one wearing the same spot constantly?

Metal thing repeatedly sitting on metal thing: less wear than metal thing constantly rotating against metal thing.
 
Dan, your AlllRighttt.
Mguner, as it says on my helmet, " It's not the speed, it's the sudden stops". I tried to convince my Mother of this as she hates me riding. Nobody ever got hurt going fast.
 
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