windage tray?

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73goldduster

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i asked on slantsix.org, but i'll check here too, does anybody know where to get a windage tray and/or crankscrapers for /6?
 
I've seen both windage trays and crank scrapers once in awhile on eBay. Not sure who is making either one. I've got a windage tray installed in a rebuilt slant sitting on the stand and another one in parts storage (for a whenever future project).
 
I dont see the guy on ebag. He was in Florida i think. I thought I had his contact info but I cant seem to find it.
Frank
 
Mopar Performance used to make one for the \6. I had one kicking around in the garage for years.
 
dgc333 said:
Mopar Performance used to make one for the \6. I had one kicking around in the garage for years.
Click to expand...

Mike Jeffrey's tray is basically a copy of the MP tray.

Isn't the guy in FL named Johnson? I have one of his scrapers in my motor. He had a thread on .org once making some very big HP claims but never offered any proof.
 
slantzilla said:
Mike Jeffrey's tray is basically a copy of the MP tray.

Isn't the guy in FL named Johnson? I have one of his scrapers in my motor. He had a thread on .org once making some very big HP claims but never offered any proof.
Click to expand...

A scraper will typically return 2 to 3% of the output of the motor (NA) at peak RPMs. This is not added HP but rather HP that is not lost to churning up oil.

MIT recently ran experiments using a 75hp electric motor to spin a V6 -- no combustion was involved. The frictional and windage losses alone substantially raised the temperature of the oil. In fact, they remarked that their cooling system at up to 20gpm was only just able to regulate the temperature to about 100C at 6500 rpm.

The return estimates are based on feedback from hundreds of different engines with varying designs. Two days ago Bill Edgeworth wrote that "I have now also set the K/SA record. That one I really hammered 11.27 @ 117mph that’s -1.68 under the index."

He reported earlier this year that the Pontiac scraper set, which is of the same basic design as the Slant Six, returned 20 hp on the dyno. Obviously his 400 is making substantially more power to start with.


It should also be pointed out that the engineers at Dodge agree with employing the general design and technology. The scraper in the Slant Six is of the same general design as the one installed in the 2003 to 2006 Viper V10 Gen III.


The design of the typical slant six sump has the crankshaft churning oil migrating out of the sump whenever full throttle is used or during heavy braking and especially when hard left turns are made. This is for a stock engine not a race engine.

Mercedes agrees with the technology as well. In their slant six diesel five scrapers are arrayed across the floor of the sump. The peak hp rpm and torque rpm are similar to those of the Mopar slant six. It is one of the most empirically verified and utilized technologies in the internal combustion engine. Its use can be traced back at least as far as the Merlin V12 of WWII fame.
 
A crank scraper is a very easy item to make. Use poster board to make a mock-up which you can then transfer to a piece of 20 gauge metal for the final product. I cut a length of board the same length of the pan rail, and wide enough be .020 from the crank counter weight. Bolt it down to keep it steady. Then cut pieces of the poster board to fit around the counter weights and tape them to the piece on the rail. Then cut pieces to fit around the rod end and tape them to the rail. Once the mock-up is done, carefully transfer it's outline to the metal. Drill the holes to mount it on the pan rail (engine) then cut the shape out. The finished shape should miss the crank by .020. One more thing, the scraper should be mounted on the crank up-swing side of the block so the oil stays in the pan.
 
Spudmaster said:
A crank scraper is a very easy item to make. Use poster board to make a mock-up which you can then transfer to a piece of 20 gauge metal for the final product. I cut a length of board the same length of the pan rail, and wide enough be .020 from the crank counter weight. Bolt it down to keep it steady. Then cut pieces of the poster board to fit around the counter weights and tape them to the piece on the rail. Then cut pieces to fit around the rod end and tape them to the rail. Once the mock-up is done, carefully transfer it's outline to the metal. Drill the holes to mount it on the pan rail (engine) then cut the shape out. The finished shape should miss the crank by .020. One more thing, the scraper should be mounted on the crank up-swing side of the block so the oil stays in the pan.
Click to expand...


If you are going to make one for the slant six I would suggest making it from 18 gauge or thicker. The reason why is that the webbing for the mains is not level with the oil pan rail like it is with, say, the small block Chevy. Thin metal will have a tendency to vibrate and with many other engines the webbing will help prevent this -- but not so with the slant six. Also, try not to use aluminum for the same reason -- it has a fatigue life and will eventually crack. I am working on designing some parts for a system and the original aftermarket design used .060" aluminum (about 16g) and there are numerous cracks in the two used samples people sent to me.

If you do want to use 20 gauge then I would suggest welding a thin rib of thicker metal along the scraper length to stiffen it up -- just shift it to the inside of the area that is clamped by the oil pan rail. Also, you will want to drill a few holes to allow oil trapped on top of the scraper a way to pass through it. Try to make those holes as close as possible to the oil pan rail so they are out of the way of the windage flow. I know that people like thin metal because it is easy to slip under an oil pan gasket but be careful.

Be sure to check the thrust bearing clearance on the crank. Push it one way and then the other and check all the clearances through full rotations. Also, it is not sufficient to go by feel or by sound when checking for clearances -- you absolutely must confirm them visually or with a feeler gauge. A heavy wire paper clip is usually about 1mm or .040".

I have made thousands of scrapers for hundreds of different kinds of engines. It is not difficult to do. Take your time.
 
thanks for reviving this thread, kevin. doesn't sound like its too difficult to fab up. i had forgotten all about it in my build plan.
also, any leakage issues with the oil pan? this would go between pan and gasket, or block and gasket?
 
73goldduster said:
thanks for reviving this thread, kevin. doesn't sound like its too difficult to fab up. i had forgotten all about it in my build plan.
also, any leakage issues with the oil pan? this would go between pan and gasket, or block and gasket?
Click to expand...

You definitely want to mount the scraper against the block because you need the clearances to be stable, Use a high quality RTV to seal it and temporarily clamp down the scraper and let it set. Carefully recheck your clearances to make sure the scraper has not shifted. When the RTV has cured you can then remove the oil pan bolts -- it is then "glued into place". If you are concerned about it shifting during service it is a good idea to drill through it into the oil pan rail and tap a couple roll pins in place. Trim them flush with the scraper surface. Normally this is not needed but it might be a good idea for a racer who will be pulling their pan periodically. The tighter you set your clearances the more carefully you need to watch the thrust bearing clearance. At 1mm or .040" scraper clearance you have roughly a ten fold safety factor for a spec of .004". With a very thin scraper you can then install the regular side pan rail gasket over it -- 20 gauge is slightly under 1mm in thickness while 18 gauge is a little over 1mm. If you go thicker than 18 gauge I would not try to install the stock side rail gasket over it. 16G or .060" (1.5mm) is about the thickness of a compressed stock pan rail gasket.

The end seals (curved preformed ones) require a bit of attention. If you have made your scraper so that it extends into this area then you will probably want to trim the seals with a single edge razor or X-acto knife so that the seal can sit flat against the pan rail again. Use a bit of RTV over the seal and at the joint.

Here are some general recommendations for using RTV:

Some Suggestions for RTV Silicone Gasket Maker use


1. Make sure the surfaces are clean and oil-free. If there is even a very thin layer of oil then you are building in a leak.
2. Use sufficient material to fill any gaps but not so much that large amounts are extruded.
3. Allow sufficient time for the material to fully cure before placing the engine into service. Many factory manuals speed this procedure to get vehicles back into service quickly. Follow the instructions on the material itself – generally a full cure is reached in 24 hours. Low humidity and low temperatures will adversely affect the reaction rate. Conversely, increasing these variables will accelerate the curing rate.
4. Once the initial “rubbery” set has occurred do not move the part. This will cause internal tears in the material and be a source of future leaks. If the part is improperly positioned at that stage it is best to remove the material and start over.
5. After the material has cured, if you want to remove blobs of material that have oozed out of the joint DO NOT pull on them. This will delaminate the material within the joint and be a source of future leaks. Instead use a razor sharp instrument to trim away the material without putting any stress on the joint.
 
Does anyone have Mike Jeffrey's contact info? I had a post somewhere here with it, but I've gone and lost the link. I wanted to talk to him about gettinga /6 windage tray.

Thanks...
 
I seen a /6 windage tray on E-Bay not 4 to 5 days ago ...
 
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