Windage Trays; Good Or Bad

[mikedevore]

I had a freind tell me that nobody were using windage trays in small blocks anymore. He stated that it is not needed with a deep oil pan. He also stated that it hampered oil return to the pan. Any opinions on this? What is the affect on stock stroke cranks & custom strokers? What is the affect on stock & deep pans? I'm from an old school of thinking, if it was good enough for Ma Mopar to use them in its H-P applications, then its good enough for me. I have used them in every engine that I have built. Street, Towing, & Race. If there is some new information on this, lets hear it.

 

[rumblefish360]

Well Mike, this is what I have gathered so far on this topic.

A windage tray is actually not needed with a deep pan, but it also dosen't hurt. The hampering effect is null and void with a deep pans extra capcity of oil. True, once the oil hits the tray, it will take an extra second or 2 to come off the tray and into the pan. However, @ 7 - 9 quarts of oil in a deep pan, theres not a need for a quicker return or actually, a worry for a quicker return. If your sucking 7 - 9 quarts dry, you have other issues at hand.

Also, the oil is so far away from the crank due to the pans depth, it doesn't or actually rarely splashs up and hits the crank.
The stock windage tray has 3 window that need to be opened up. Or is it 4? Hummmm... This aids in the quickest possible return of the oil.

A windage tray should be used with a stock pan.
A windage tray is added insurance of oil splashing up on the crank even with a deep pan. But that seems to only happen with mega hard hitting drag cars and cars that see alot of side to side motion in something like a series of quick turns. Road race, SCCA, extra spirted driving in the streets, etc ........

There has been some discusion on the effect of the 340's windage tray use on a 360. "Not being engineered for the larger stroke" seems to be the bugle cry. I'm honestly not sold on this. The tray did come stock on 360 engines. The E-58 or HP 360's. While this is not a race engine, just a factory part adding what ever HP they could squezze out of the engine anyway they could in the late 70's, I really don't see this has a problem.

I'm sure someone will come up with some scientific mombo jumbo BS write. And how true it is, and I've seen a few, just doesn't sell me on the worth of it's not being used vs. the HP loss of it's use. It is also compaired with so called stroker windage trays designed for a larger stroke.

More clearance might be needed on a stroker. I don't know about small blocks. Big blocks have a increased clearance tray.

The best set up for this is an overkill list IMO, but actually, probably, worth power. Bang vs. buck vs. work vs. .........

Widage tray, deep pan and a scraper. Then theres a dry sump.

 

[toolmanmike]

Rumblefish is correct. Unless the Mopar mags do a "before and after" dyno test we may never know the answer to you're question. (mine too) It won't rob horsepower but does it gain HP as advertised? toolmanmike

 

[mikedevore]

Thanks guys. I have a stock eliminator friend, I know he runs a scraper. I will see if he will share some info. He runs H/SA & I/SA with two Dusters. This is the kinda stuff that the Mopar Mags should be doing. Its kinda like, I know its there, but why?

 

[Max340]

As I understand it, the depth of the oil pan isn't the concern. The windage try creates a "scraping" effect on the air surrounding the crankshaft. Because of this, it pulls oil drops out of the air, and way from the crank. This is supposed to do two things. It'll lower the resistance to the spinning crank, and it'll return oil to the pan more quickly. This allegedly gives a small amount of power gain.

When I was building the 340, I put one in, since hp gained wthout burning fuel is a winner in my opinion.

YMMV

 

[daredevil]

keeps oil from roping on the crank so reciprocating is lighter. aids in oil return to pan. keeps crank from drowning on hard acceleration increasing horsepower. use one.

 

[2 Darts]

Windage trays work. Noted in a recent engine build competitions by Mopar Muscle that one of the builders used an oversize oil filter on the engine to help keep oil off the crank.

The oversize filter that matches the Mopar filter seat is Fram PH3306A. This thing is twice as long as the PH8A Fram and three times as long as the PH43A, check clearance before trying this at home.

 

[green1]

I don't think Mopar would have spent the extra money to install them, if they weren't needed. It wasn't advertised as an extra goodie.

 

[rbdart]

as DAREDEVIL says---use it it 'WORKS---AND YEA TO OPENING UP MORE SLOTS/HOLES

 

[jefflock]

Is there a guide or some tech info on how to open up slots/holes?

 

[dusterdon]

Just get a cut off wheel, make a few cuts and open up the slits 3 times as large as they were. You want the oil to easily get away from the crank. No matter how open the slots are, oil won't come back up through them.

 

[moper]

It's all about oil control doing what the car needs to do. From the factory, the small blocks had the oil level up near the crank, and the sump was always fairly full. These engines didnt pump a ton of oil upstairs, and the valley has good drainback compared to many others. Same deal in big blocks. Factory trays simply stop the breeze from picking up any oil and the crank can move enough air to do that if the oil level is high enough. A lot of drag racers run extra oil capacity because of the wider clearances, and the larger pumps they require. Plus, the oil splashes to the rear and stay there during the run. Controling the drainback, the delivery, and the removal of the oil from the crank's windstream is crutial. You can see this in the fact that many stock eliminator guys run light oils, and very low sump amounts, so there is just enough oil at the stripe to keep the bearings alive. They suck the pan dry every run. A friend of mine who had multiple records in the 80s and 90s used to drain out 3 qts of oil when he was backing up a record, because it was a gaurantee to go faster on that second run. Road racers will use a combination of pan, scraper, trap doors, and tray, plus an accusump to make sure there is adequate oil pressure and volume regardless of the forces on the oil itself. The drag racers simply dont have enough oil where it would be a problem during the run. My own thought is the best combo for any situation is a combination of oil delivery modifications of the block passages, good clearances, added drainback provisions, and a scraper and tray, with any pan you need for the chassis.

 

[jefflock]

I'm getting ready to put my new Kevco pan on an engine that I'm assembling today. Just wondering if I should keep the tray or dump it. I've already modified it to clear the hold down bolt for the oil pick up.

 

[koryliss]

I think rumblefish360 is right on (BTW - 4 windows).

I had the opportunity to play with trays on a dyno and, while the differences were not big, every tray we tried added, never subtracted, HP. This is a on a 4" stroke motor with a 7 quart pan and the only issue we had at the time was trying to get the pan to work with 4 bolt mains (this was a while ago - I think there are alternatives now.).

I would think that any differences we had on a a dyno would be greater as oil sloshes around in a moving car but I can not prove that ... freakin dyno just doesn't tilt!

Kory

 

[hemizach]

From my understanding, like a few of the other guys here have said, they are supposed to help. But I agree, only so much a dyno can show us. When the oil starts getting thrown around in there, that might be where the difference is. What people say about them does make sense though... I'll probably end up throwing one in when I build my engine.

 

[72bluNblu]

Good info! :-D

My 340 short block that I'm rebuilding came with a windage tray. Since I'm also getting a kevko pan I wasn't sure if I still needed it, but it sounds like you guys are making a pretty good argument for keeping it. Especially given that I'm fixing the car up to handle so it will be fun in the corners and maybe for some occasional autoX.