Wont Start, Help

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1

1974 Duster

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Jan 5, 2016
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Location
Idaho
Hi All,

I have a 74 Duster with a stock 1974 440 with stock elec, ignition. It is a low mileage warranty replacement motor I fixed up a little with heads rebuilt with hemi springs new timing set and oil pump. I have been trying to fire this thing for a month. It is a 727 with a working neutral safety switch operating correctly. It will crank and kind of light if I use starting fluid. When I first tried to fire it, I made the mistake the 3 year old gas didn't smell bad until I tried to fire it. So I drained all 14 gallons and cleaned lines out and pulled carb and drained then added fresh fuel. It has a 71 440 HP AVS that ran perfect when I pulled the motor out of a truck. So I started investigating and found only 5 volts to main power to the ballast resister. Ok, pulled harness all apart and cleaned bulkheads connections and all underhood connection with contact cleaner and used dialectric grease everywhere I could. Recleaned all grounds to the motor and body. Now getting 12.5 volts to the hot side of the ballast resister and the start position at run is the 6 volts and 11 when starting. It also was getting no spark out of the coil. I now have good spark to a plug when cranking. But still will not run. It has good fuel,and good spark. I marked the distributor before I pulled it for a cleaning. It is in the exact spot it came from and ran great. When I replaced the timing chain I had the heads off and measured TDC by piston. Used a straight edge and went on exactly the way the original came off. I did pull a plug and it doesn't appear to be wet, but it smells of old fuel. I am going to go get a fresh set which will be a chore. (I have TTI shorty headers) If it doesnt run after a set of plugs I believe I am stumped. Going to also check voltage drop while cranking.
 
Crank it with a spare spark plug put in the wire and see how strong the spark is and verify the timing also when cranking. If spark is strong, give it a few extra pumps of gas and see if it's just thirsty when starting.
 
Thanks All for the replies. I have checked spark through the distributor to a spark plug end with a spark plug grounded and have good spark. I have done plenty of pumping and cranking. It is getting good fuel to it. Going to try another set of plugs and check cranking voltage drop. Stumped.
 
Okay, this shouldn't be a mystery. I'll give you a list of things to double check, even if you have already checked them 5 times... no kidding, do yourself a favor and check them again. It's always something that I was SURE of that bites me in the a$$.
Let's start with the easy stuff...
Does fuel shoot into the carb bores when you pump the throttle? (It should)
If you have fuel, I'd next check the timing.
Make SURE the rotor is pointing straight at the #1 plug wire when you are coming up on the compression stroke of #1 cylinder. Number 1 is the front drivers side cylinder. Sometimes you have to go as far as pulling the valve cover off to make sure both valves are closed on number 1 to verify it's on the compression stroke. And remember, when you are placing the plug wires, the big block rotor turns the opposite way (counterclockwise) from a small block. The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. I've seen several good mechanics get confused due to the opposite rotation of the big block distributor. If memory serves, the #1 plug wire will go on the low (passenger side) of the cap, and it will roughly line up with the front corner of the block, sort of pointing at the fuel pump or alternator.
Number 8 will be the next one in a counterclockwise direction.

If you find that you can't get the number one plug terminal even close to where it should be when the the #1 cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke, either you have the distributor in 180 degrees out, or the cam timing is wrong.

If you have fuel, and get the timing close, and there's compression it should at least start and run.
Good luck with it.
 
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Run a wire directly from the battery to the coil to bypass any ignition problem and see if she runs
 
If its getting fire its either timing or carb issue. Check and make sure your getting fuel to the cylinders if you are check and recheck your timing. You maybe should take off the carb and clean it maybe something something is stuck from the bad gas.
 
I marked the distributor before I pulled it so it is in the exact spot it was when it ran before. I have moved retarded and advanced but it either pops back through the carb or exhaust. It seems to want to run right where it is at. I am getting a good shot of clean fuel through the carb. I am going to replace plugs today and run your suggested wire and see what it does. I have a brand new powermaster xs starter and it wears down my brand new group 24 battery within a few cranks. Is it possible I need a group 27. I will be checking voltage drop in start mode today. Just need to make some alligator clips for my meter. I am also going to test my fuel pump to see how its doing.
 
To Gary in AZ thanks I will check again. I have been out of the game for awhile as I just retired from the Army and came home. What I did when I pulled the motor from the truck was to be certain everything went back exactly how it was when running in the truck. I pulled motor and then the heads and all the tin so I can reteach myself big blocks. Distributor was left in, I wanted the timing chain replace exactly as it was so I brought it up to #1 TDC and measured then replaced timing chain with a straight edge aligning it and yes the marks were exactly as the one I pulled. Then marked and pulled dist. and cleaned everything and bolted back together. Didn't even put a cam in it as I measured and calculated compression to be 7.6-1 and decided to keep the stock cam till I rebuild. I will retime everything to be sure.
 
Juz sayin, but putting in a chain as you describe is "no way." Because it assumes too many things.......like the old one and the distributor were correct. Even if it ran this does not mean things are correct

"Checking spark." Just how did you do that? EG: If you check spark by jumpering the starter relay, and then try to fire the engine using the KEY this sets up two completely different electrical scenarios

Please describe how you checked the spark, IE just how.

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When you jumper the start relay with the key in "run" this only gives you minimal voltage to the coil as it is through the ballast resistor, and the bypass circuit is not active. So you will have a weaker spark compared to..........

when a properly operating system is cranked using the key. The switch has a resistor bypass circuit (the brown IGN1) so you get a hotter spark in "cranking."

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To check spark, "rig" a solid core wire from the coil tower to a wide gapped plug or better yet a parts store spark checker. Crank USING THE KEY. You should get a nice fat spark 3/8" or longer nice and blue

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FUEL Has it been sitting? Are you priming down the carb throat with some KNOWN fresh fuel?
 
How do you know where the timing is? Might just be retarded (or the cam could be off!!!)

You can check static timing EASY Or if you have a light, you can check timing "on the starter."

"Static": Pull no1 plug. Put your finger in, bump the engine around, until it blows your finger out. You may have to go 'round a couple of tmes to get the "feel." When you START to feel compression, STOP and look for the marks coming up. DO NOT set them at TDC, but rather "where you want the timing" IE 10-12 BTC or so for a stock cam

Now, remove cap and wiggle the rotor, remember it turns CCW!!! Rotor should be "coming to" or about even with the no1 plug tower

Loosen dist, rotate CCW (retard) and then CW (advance) slowly until reluctor is about centered in pickkup coil. YOU CAN ALSO move the dist back and forth while in "run" and produce a spark. As you move the dist back and forth try to move slower and slower and less and less, until finally, you "just" move it and get a spark as you move CW. THIS should be very close to time

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If you have a timing light, just hook it up and crank the engine. You should get enough flash to check timing.

I have fired used engines WITHOUT EVEN A CARB.

COMPRESSION............have you run a leak down or compression test? Has it been sitting enough that maybe a shot of oil in the cylinders would help?
 
I am in Northern CDA like you. Sorry about slow replies have to take care of kiddos this morning. I checked spark by pulling coil wire and a wrench about 3/4 an inche away and has good yellow snap to it. Then pulled no 8 plug and used it grounded and got strong spark there as well. Cant get back to it until this afternoon.
 
Reason I asked........if you are anywhere "close" I'd be glad to stop over...............
 
Just one example of how things can "go south" we had one member here..........smallblock.........put together a new engine and somehow got a REVERSE GRIND marine cam in the thing. No, LOL, it would not run!!
 
Thanks for all the replies everybody. I am going to have to put this thing on the back burner due to family at the moment. dart 273 thanks for the calls and advice.
 
Did a little work on it the other night. Had a good 750 DP holley that sat for 3 years and tried it. Only had a little time. Well, resulted in a small fire and a stuck float. Damnit, I need to leave it on the back burner till I can dedicate time to it.
 
Hi Everybody,
Was able to dedicate some time to the car today. Rebuilt the 750 DP and got that working correctly and not really dumping fuel. Changed plugs and cranked distributor way around. Finally found the sweet spot and it really sounded great. Cant believe it fired. Thanks to all for the help. Now I have to figure out how to seal the exhaust studs. The entire passenger side leaks after I have already used high temp. Not sure what is next. get exhaust hooked up and figure it out from there. Thanks again to everyone.
 
Hi Everybody,
I know this is an old post but wanted to revive a little bit with an update. I moved across the country and waiting on house closing and got hit with covid, So here I am. A few months ago I spent an entire week getting the car driveable. I fixed the old 3310 holley and put back on and mounted seats in it and actually drove it. Drove it around open headers and was able to make a few blasts. This is a stock low cr truck 440 and it really hauls *** for what it is. I cant wait for a few months when I can get in house and finish the shop. This thing will be fun. Next up is exhaust , frame connectors and I have a 3.23 sure grip going in. Should be some sideways fun with 6 inch wide tires. I am planning on a full USCT strengthening kit and having the rearend narrowed. Anybody in abilene TX know of someone that can narrow a rearend.
 
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