WTF Front Brakes?!?

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This is also true of most of the aftermarket control arms. We just assume they are all welded correctly using the proper materials. All we can do is look at the track record of them and decide if one or another gives you the most piece of mind. Personally, I prefer unmolested factory parts that have been tried and true for ages.
 
Nobody claims it is ideal or good to go from what can be seen, but the original cross section and design is overbuilt (from originals still in use and replacements that are thinner yet have an adequate service life) and I expect the cross section at the welds is greater (full bead on the bottom to try to compensate for grinding the top smooth for appearance).
 
yeah, for it to have fatigue strength anywhere near the parent material, the weld itself would have to essentially be ground and polished to the point of being basically indetectable through the paint. a plain old class C unground fully penetrated fillet weld will have a fatigue life of maybe 10-20% of the parent material.
 
I have those same calipers on my Dart, and they didn't come from an E-body. They came from some late-70's car with an R, W, X, or S vin number, as that's what was recommended in Mopar Action way back in the day. The pins are less likely to stick. I like 'em.
 
This is also true of most of the aftermarket control arms. We just assume they are all welded correctly using the proper materials. All we can do is look at the track record of them and decide if one or another gives you the most piece of mind. Personally, I prefer unmolested factory parts that have been tried and true for ages.

We assume the factory did its due diligence as well, and yet there are many cases (TSB's, recalls) where we know the factory fell short too. And that was before all those parts were 50 years old, and we consider that nothing made 50 years ago is as strong as it was the day it was made. Heck some of the stuff that's sat unused on a shelf for the last 50 years isn't as strong as when it was produced. Be educated and informed, but at some point you just have to hit the street.

The upper control arms don't support the weight of the car like the LCA's do, the load requirements for them are quite a bit lower. Yes, their failure could still be catastrophic, but the margin for error as far as strength goes is MUCH different than even the LCA's.

yeah, for it to have fatigue strength anywhere near the parent material, the weld itself would have to essentially be ground and polished to the point of being basically indetectable through the paint. a plain old class C unground fully penetrated fillet weld will have a fatigue life of maybe 10-20% of the parent material.

Sorry, but if we're going to be technical even if they have a fatigue strength that's only 10% of the parent material that's only a single order of magnitude, not "orders of magnitude".

And I agree, if the strength is truly only 10% of the parent material that's not good. But that would be a pretty extreme case, and I think the fact that the UCA's in question have been used on the street for at least 2 years would demonstrate a fatigue strength that's substantially better than 10%.

"Orders of magnitude" would mean that the welds would have to be hundreds of times weaker, at minimum. For example, Rick Ehrenberg tested factory LCA's in failure in the April 2011 Mopar Action. He did a two point test (supporting the LCA at the ball joint and pivot) and used a press to add pressure until the LCA's failed. The stock LCA failed at 2,800 psi. Now, an order of magnitude would mean a failure at only hundreds of psi. And "orders of magnitude" would require a failure in the tens of psi. The factory UCA's wouldn't take as much force before they bent, the LCA's are far stronger. But even if you assumed the fatigue strength of the UCA's is in the thousands of pounds, that would mean the fatigue strength would have to be in the tens of pounds to be literally "orders of magnitude" lower. That wouldn't hold up on the street for any length of time.

So yes, that's being pretty technical. But so is using the term "orders of magnitude" correctly, and it is a technical term.
 
We assume the factory did its due diligence as well, and yet there are many cases (TSB's, recalls) where we know the factory fell short too. And that was before all those parts were 50 years old, and we consider that nothing made 50 years ago is as strong as it was the day it was made. Heck some of the stuff that's sat unused on a shelf for the last 50 years isn't as strong as when it was produced. Be educated and informed, but at some point you just have to hit the street.

The upper control arms don't support the weight of the car like the LCA's do, the load requirements for them are quite a bit lower. Yes, their failure could still be catastrophic, but the margin for error as far as strength goes is MUCH different than even the LCA's.



Sorry, but if we're going to be technical even if they have a fatigue strength that's only 10% of the parent material that's only a single order of magnitude, not "orders of magnitude".

And I agree, if the strength is truly only 10% of the parent material that's not good. But that would be a pretty extreme case, and I think the fact that the UCA's in question have been used on the street for at least 2 years would demonstrate a fatigue strength that's substantially better than 10%.

"Orders of magnitude" would mean that the welds would have to be hundreds of times weaker, at minimum. For example, Rick Ehrenberg tested factory LCA's in failure in the April 2011 Mopar Action. He did a two point test (supporting the LCA at the ball joint and pivot) and used a press to add pressure until the LCA's failed. The stock LCA failed at 2,800 psi. Now, an order of magnitude would mean a failure at only hundreds of psi. And "orders of magnitude" would require a failure in the tens of psi. The factory UCA's wouldn't take as much force before they bent, the LCA's are far stronger. But even if you assumed the fatigue strength of the UCA's is in the thousands of pounds, that would mean the fatigue strength would have to be in the tens of pounds to be literally "orders of magnitude" lower. That wouldn't hold up on the street for any length of time.

So yes, that's being pretty technical. But so is using the term "orders of magnitude" correctly, and it is a technical term.

granted, it's been 12 years since I did that work, but I remember numerous cases in the initial design of frames and buckets we were given, using the load history they developed over the years on their proving grounds, where predicted life in fillet welds were less than 250 hours and adjacent parent plate life was over 40K hours, and we'd iterate the design to improve that, things such as moving weld toes and stop starts away from geometric stress concentrators, adjusting material thickness and fillet size or weld classification (rule of thumb backed up by their empirical fatigue testing data, moving from a class C to a class B (ground to remove stress concentrators) typically doubles the weld life). IIRC our target was usually a bare minimum of 2k hours in welds; with the machines having a regular weld inspection schedule.
 
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No One Ever mentions 'Drawing Down' or annealing the weld to remove stress risers or 'softening the weld' just enough to increase weld life.
Any suspension we built for Indy Cars is heliarced & after cooled we would use acetylene torch to draw it down; as you warm with torch the metal goes thru colors, gold first, IIRC, then purple/blue, then to grey(too hot). This is done to improve flexability of the weld.
 
Hey @VOETOM have you seen this? I may have you come put eyes directly on the control arms and give me your opinion? Here's the control arm pics again.

1733566290894.jpeg

1733566312819.jpeg
 
The front top brack
Hey @VOETOM have you seen this? I may have you come put eyes directly on the control arms and give me your opinion? Here's the control arm pics again.

View attachment 1716336511
View attachment 1716336512
Hey @VOETOM have you seen this? I may have you come put eyes directly on the control arms and give me your opinion? Here's the control arm pics again.

View attachment 1716336511
View attachment 1716336512
The top front bracket hold the control arm welded to the frame is what broke on me and had to be welded back on.
 
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