X pipe H pipe or side by side

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I love these threads You see who has comon sense. Look at the firing orders. Really!!. This is what determines the effectiveness of the pulse scavenge. On Mopar's and Chevy's with firing orders 18436572 X pipes are useless.

Some just will never agree because they were talked into buying that expensive heavy useless system that they are proud of looking at.

Did anyone ever think why only 440 HP and Hemi's came with an H pipe. 383 and 340's did not.

Cheaper to equalize the system then to increase exhaust and tail pipe size for the big cupic inch motors.

The sound of these cars were totally different with the H pipe . owned both at same time when new. 69 393 RR and a 69 440 R/T.

Just look at them both and try and use some sense X , H and don't give me that scavenge theory I don't buy it on Mopar firing order
 
H pipe and My mouse. The elephant Tamer. Full interior factory spare still in the trunk. I like the sound of the H Pipe.

[ame]https://youtu.be/Wq3yolr4sKA[/ame]
 
Oldmanmopar said:
H pipe and My mouse. The elephant Tamer. Full interior factory spare still in the trunk. I like the sound of the H Pipe.

https://youtu.be/Wq3yolr4sKA
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this has nothing to do w/ the currant argument, but is true and interesting. when I built my 92 GMC street truck w/ a really hot 406 sbc, 1 7/8" headers, 350 turbo, 3:73 rear, w/ a leaflink type traction devises, and a Detroit locker, I drove it for a while w/ my home made 3" straight back to 3" dual flowmasters on it. then took it to a muffler shop and had 3" duals running back over the axle and out behind the rear wheels added. I could tell the h.p. diff. when I started it and backed out of the muffler shop. It was so drastic compared to my home made system, I drove the 5 miles to my house and pulled them off. reinstalled my turn downs on the mufflers. If some one needs or wants the 3" over the axle set up for a gm short bed, I`ll sell them dirt cheap, their still in the barn !! :coffee2:
 
Locomotion said:
Thanks for the vote of confidence. The weight was actually at least 60 lbs, but I compensated by removing the weight from elsewhere in the car to maintain my normal race weight. Nonetheless, after having raced it for years while sorting out the jetting and keeping records as detailed as possible, the car was at least .05 faster and possibly up to .10 after a 1-2 # leaner jet change.

True, it wasn't a totally controlled back-to-back test because I don't have the time, money or resources to eliminate all variables. But the results from my test based on good record keeping showed a benefit on my particular combination. If I wasn't sure of it, I wouldn't have went through the trouble of finding weight elsewhere to remove and put up with the extra difficulty of pulling the trans or center section because the exhaust system is in the way. With the restrictive rules we have in Stock, even small gains can be difficult and expensive to find. So I take them where I can within the rules and my budget.

A similar situation exists with other exhaust "tricks". Merge collectors and step headers, - they have helped some cars and not others. Lots of variable there too. One has to make an "educated decision" based on what they learn about the modification in question (from any and all sources), pick through what they "learn" and decide whether or not it may be be worth trying, and then try to eliminate as many variables and one can. Basically "re-tune" the engine to try and optimize it for the change. Very often, for the average racer, good record keeping, knowing your car and it's reaction to weather changes and time slips are the only tools available to compare before & after results.

I'm under the impression that even an engine "optimized" on a dyno may not have the optimum tune-up at the track, under actual operating conditions. Again, lots of variable there with weather, air flow, loads, etc. Bottom line is the time slip or lap times.
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Yeah Myron, take that heavy crap off your car, no benefit. Anytime someone says this or that NEVER works, they are full of crap!

This is funny. People using analogies that have no place in the discussion. This thread is FULL OF AWESOME!
 
going back to the Mopar Muscle header / manifold test on a mild 360, the equal length
headers averaged about a 15 hp gain.
I'm not saying they do or don't but, it's hard to believe just an h pipe could make anything noticeable.
 
With a crossover the engine "sees" the pipe as bigger than what it really is. Now, if you dump it after the header or with a header muffler then of course this does not apply. X or H is good for a full exhaust system.
 
ir3333 said:
going back to the Mopar Muscle header / manifold test on a mild 360, the equal length
headers averaged about a 15 hp gain.
I'm not saying they do or don't but, it's hard to believe just an h pipe could make anything noticeable.
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Why is it hard to believe? You keep saying you don't believe. And people keep posting proof, dyno tests, race results, magazine articles. So tell me why you don't believe.
 
I remember talking to Doug Thorley hisself about this years ago. He said that although they do offer crossovers of different styles, that they did not make much of a real difference on the dyno. All I remember him saying they did was make the sound different.

I do know that without the crossover.......of any kind, that the exhaust note is more crisp and edgy. I kinda like it like that.

I guess it's like any other mod though. The best place to really find out about any power advantage is on the drag strip.
 
Lelo Dart said:
With a crossover the engine "sees" the pipe as bigger than what it really is. Now, if you dump it after the header or with a header muffler then of course this does not apply. X or H is good for a full exhaust system.
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Lustle said:
Why is it hard to believe? You keep saying you don't believe. And people keep posting proof, dyno tests, race results, magazine articles. So tell me why you don't believe.
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RustyRatRod said:
I remember talking to Doug Thorley hisself about this years ago. He said that although they do offer crossovers of different styles, that they did not make much of a real difference on the dyno. All I remember him saying they did was make the sound different.

I do know that without the crossover.......of any kind, that the exhaust note is more crisp and edgy. I kinda like it like that.

I guess it's like any other mod though. The best place to really find out about any power advantage is on the drag strip.
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I did my H pipe because an X wouldn't fit my GVOD. I'd have an X in there is it fit. The X from all tests I've seen on full exahsust cars shows dyno benefit. The H may help some but as rusty aid helps with sound which is the primary reason I'm running one. To help tone down the exhaust.
 
I talked to a gentleman on here who runs a Pure Stock Drags 340 GTS and he claims .3 tenths improvement on an X-pipe 2.5" exhaust alone.
 
chrispy1971gtx said:
I talked to a gentleman on here who runs a Pure Stock Drags 340 GTS and he claims .3 tenths improvement on an X-pipe 2.5" exhaust alone.
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That is intresting but also raises a few more questions.
Is that gain from replacing a restrictive stock exhaust?
And is parts of that gain from the X helping those poor manifolds do partialy what a set of headers could have done for the same engine?
 
chrispy1971gtx said:
I talked to a gentleman on here who runs a Pure Stock Drags 340 GTS and he claims .3 tenths improvement on an X-pipe 2.5" exhaust alone.
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Nothing else matters except how the system performs on the car. Those X pipes are all garbage. :) Except on cars that show an improvement... LOL
 
I have an X pipe on my GTX, because my exhaust guy put it on! The car does one heck of a burnout and sounds cool as hell!! What more do I need to know???
 
crackedback said:
Nothing else matters except how the system performs on the car. Those X pipes are all garbage. :) Except on cars that show an improvement... LOL
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Unless that improvment is not just the X-pipe,a big part of that improvment might just be due to a complete swap from a restrictive stock exhaust to a complete highperformance exhaust from the stock manifolds with an X
You probably wont see the same kind of improvment on a car with a complete mandrelbent 2½" exhaust with good mufflers on a car with headers if you just add that X.
That post is an intresting piece of information,just not sure how to use that piece of information without knowing more.

Just trying to put things into perspective here so we dont make people think that all 300hp cars will improve there quartermile performance by a certain amount from just installing an X-pipe.

Oh i just realized i read the post wrong .3tenth is a very small gain i thought it was .3seconds. every gain is a gain but that was a rather small one.
 
cosgig said:
I have an X pipe on my GTX, because my exhaust guy put it on! The car does one heck of a burnout and sounds cool as hell!! What more do I need to know???
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Right

A lot of good info in this thread, on both sides of the argument. I always thought of it as a sound thing, if you are running a full exhaust system pick the one that sounds good to you. I personally like the sound of an x so that is what I went with, and I don't think it weighs a lot more or costs a lot more than a H or side by side.
 
1Fast340 said:
Oh i just realized i read the post wrong .3tenth is a very small gain i thought it was .3seconds. every gain is a gain but that was a rather small one.
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chrispy1971gtx said:
I talked to a gentleman on here who runs a Pure Stock Drags 340 GTS and he claims .3 tenths improvement on an X-pipe 2.5" exhaust alone.
Click to expand...

.3 tenths is a lot. Try to get 3 tenths more out of a dialed in strip car.

And you some added perspective....

10.90 vs. 11.20 @ 1320
 
Now I can post pics of my X pipe setup installed...

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yup when i push the nitros botton in.I think the motor needs more air in,and OUT..but thats just me.:finga:
 
laj340 said:
yup when i push the nitros botton in.I think the motor needs more air in,and OUT..but thats just me.:finga:
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You are artificially adding the air in but it does need to get out of there.
 
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