X pipe vs H pipe
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72dart_swinger
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I have read that an x pipe can give you a little more hp but dont know from experience.
1968FormulaS340
Well-Known Member
We have had this thread several times.
In short:
H, costs less.
X, works better.
Both are an improvement over none at all.
In short:
H, costs less.
X, works better.
Both are an improvement over none at all.
simple just plain duals sounds like a V8
H-pipes sounds like a V8 while smothing it out just a little and taking alitle drone out of the car.
X-Pipes in many cases makes your american V8 sound like a italian sportscar or just plain crap. there is few cars that actualy sound good with them.
as for power, aslong as prostock racecars dont use crosovers i will stay convinsed that the horsepowerclaims are just bogus advertising.
H-pipes sounds like a V8 while smothing it out just a little and taking alitle drone out of the car.
X-Pipes in many cases makes your american V8 sound like a italian sportscar or just plain crap. there is few cars that actualy sound good with them.
as for power, aslong as prostock racecars dont use crosovers i will stay convinsed that the horsepowerclaims are just bogus advertising.
71duster06
Well-Known Member
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFqp7CIoR4g&list=FLBoJOlFj9k-6MoBfxKdf1Ng&index=27&feature=plpp_video"]71 Duster with Dynomax - YouTube[/ame]
X-pipe
Noticable performance improvement over standard duals
X-pipe
Noticable performance improvement over standard duals
dusterdan
Sublime Member
don't both of them eliminate the "popping" sound when you let off the throttle? That's what i always though as they "equalize" the pressure but i really have no idea.....
412 Stroker
Well-Known Member
I have always had an "H" but you will get a million opinions form many here, here are a couple of graphs (both Mustangs) I found on the net, Basically it's really up to what YOU WANT to do with your exhaust and how much you want to spend on it. IMO
The idea behind the crossover is that you end up with better exhaust scavenging. Exhaust pulses from each cylinder firing cause a pressure wave that moves down the exhaust with velocity. Each pulse has lower pressure ahead and behind it, the theory goes that the low pressure behind each pulse, along with the pulses forward velocity, will "pull" the exhaust gasses following it out of the system. The crossover allows for the pulses to be closer together, so you get better "pull", or, better exhaust gas scavenging. That means a more efficient exhaust and better flow.
That's the theory anyway. The "X" works better for that because it keeps the exhaust gasses at a higher velocity, no need to reflect around a 90 degree corner.
But, the X's are harder to install, the crossover section is longer, so it takes up more space under the car and its harder to find a place to put it. Especially if you're low to the ground and trying to keep the exhaust tucked up high on the floor. Plus they tend to be more expensive. The "H" pipe is quick and easy to install, doesn't take up as much space and can be as simple as a straight piece of pipe.
I run an "X" pipe on my Challenger. I don't think it really sounds all that different from an "H" pipe, both are a little smoother sounding than a dual system without a crossover.
This is an old video of my challenger I took for someone that wanted to know more about my exhaust, its just a generic Summit X pipe I built a system around. Kinda ghetto in the video, its been tucked up a little higher, welded together, and now goes all the way out to the valance. But, it doesn't sound too bad for what's basically a stock 318. Video quality isn't that great, I was trying to get the sound more than anything.
[ame="http://youtu.be/Eamwil-bJBg"]302 Found[/ame]
That's the theory anyway. The "X" works better for that because it keeps the exhaust gasses at a higher velocity, no need to reflect around a 90 degree corner.
But, the X's are harder to install, the crossover section is longer, so it takes up more space under the car and its harder to find a place to put it. Especially if you're low to the ground and trying to keep the exhaust tucked up high on the floor. Plus they tend to be more expensive. The "H" pipe is quick and easy to install, doesn't take up as much space and can be as simple as a straight piece of pipe.
I run an "X" pipe on my Challenger. I don't think it really sounds all that different from an "H" pipe, both are a little smoother sounding than a dual system without a crossover.
This is an old video of my challenger I took for someone that wanted to know more about my exhaust, its just a generic Summit X pipe I built a system around. Kinda ghetto in the video, its been tucked up a little higher, welded together, and now goes all the way out to the valance. But, it doesn't sound too bad for what's basically a stock 318. Video quality isn't that great, I was trying to get the sound more than anything.
[ame="http://youtu.be/Eamwil-bJBg"]302 Found[/ame]
HotLines
Realist - Free Thinker
The idea of the X is to scavenge to exhaust as to what the older American race cars once did by crossing the headers as 1 into 3, 2 into 4 etc. Just two days ago I spoke with a muffler dude who told me this didn't work which to me was pure BS, also said I should rid my car of the supertrapps and change to something better.
Oh well, I'm not one to take advice from those who only think they know.. Yet I think 412 Stroker hit the nail on the head
Oh well, I'm not one to take advice from those who only think they know.. Yet I think 412 Stroker hit the nail on the head
Locomotion
Well-Known Member
I've posted this in other threads, but I guess it can go here too!
I ran TTI 1 5/8"-1 3/4" step headers with collectors on my car for a year or two, tuning the carb as well as I could. I then installed a 3" X-pipe ending with 3" Dynomax Ultraflows at the rear axle housing. After removing the 60-70 lbs the exhaust added to bring the overall weight back down to what it was, and tuned on the carb a lttle bit, the end result was faster ET's by .05 -.10 - on my particular combo.
I'm sure the X-pipe helped and that the mufflers didn't hurt. I also get a lot of compliments at the track, and it certainly doesn't sound like an Italian sports car.
Your results may vary. But as with most engine related changes, adjusting the jetting and sometimes squirters is needed to get the most out of that change.
I ran TTI 1 5/8"-1 3/4" step headers with collectors on my car for a year or two, tuning the carb as well as I could. I then installed a 3" X-pipe ending with 3" Dynomax Ultraflows at the rear axle housing. After removing the 60-70 lbs the exhaust added to bring the overall weight back down to what it was, and tuned on the carb a lttle bit, the end result was faster ET's by .05 -.10 - on my particular combo.
I'm sure the X-pipe helped and that the mufflers didn't hurt. I also get a lot of compliments at the track, and it certainly doesn't sound like an Italian sports car.
Your results may vary. But as with most engine related changes, adjusting the jetting and sometimes squirters is needed to get the most out of that change.
briankaplan
greenduster
With an X pipe you do get more HP and Tq. I have felt it in the Duster.
Tryed open headers at the strip, then used my new X pipe set up. The
exhaust open just by the bend to the mufflers. Lower ET and sure felt
like more Tq.
Tryed open headers at the strip, then used my new X pipe set up. The
exhaust open just by the bend to the mufflers. Lower ET and sure felt
like more Tq.
64physhy
Well-Known Member
Here's a good thread on that subject from when I asked this question a couple years ago.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=57237
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=57237
before getting a X-pipe atleast have a good look at it. alot of them look like absolute crap on the inside. some are made out of pressed sheetmetal others are made out of tubing, take a good look and then think about why there is mandrelbent tubing in headers,exhaustsystems and why we spend so much time and money on getting the ports to flow well in the heads then have a good look at many comercialy available x-pipes.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
You will NEVER notice the power difference in a Street Driven Car, one against the other.........
I however think a nasty sounding camshaft sounds alot better with the X Pipe vs the H.
I however think a nasty sounding camshaft sounds alot better with the X Pipe vs the H.
airwoofer
Drivetrain limit explorer
I had real good results with putting a 3" generic Jegs X system on my 416 with flow 40s dumping at the rear axle. Was a tad raspy and adding 8" long cherrybombs before the flows smoothed it out. ET dropped by about .15 despite the weight. TTI 1/78 stepped headers.
Basically copied the TTI X pipe design.
Basically copied the TTI X pipe design.
Dartnut
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful
My '69 Coronet R/T 440 4 speed had it on it originally.
That's got to say something. I can't see mopar doing something counter productive if it cost them money.
My brother had a '69 Coronet R/T 440 auto back when they were new and it had the ''h'' pipe on it originally too.
That's got to say something. I can't see mopar doing something counter productive if it cost them money.
My brother had a '69 Coronet R/T 440 auto back when they were new and it had the ''h'' pipe on it originally too.
txstang84
Well-Known Member
Pretty subjective statements. I've owned/driven all three; the exhaust on my '72 Scamp is X piped and it sounds nothing like an Italian sportscar, nor does it sound trashy/same goes for my wife's '04 Mustang GT. Out of the probably hundreds of American V8 powered machines I've been around with X-pipes, none of them sounded anything like crap. The order of sound (deals with degrees of travel between pulses) is still the same regardless of what exhaust system you have installed. And if it sounds like crap, then the mufflers or tuning of the car are more to blame than the pipes themselves.
My '84 Mustang did have an H-pipe setup and it sounded kinda raspy at certain RPMs/throttle settings, but that was much more to do with the mufflers than the pipes, otherwise, I liked it.
The hp claims are what they are-I won't say numbers aren't tortured, but prostock cars don't typically run a full exhaust anyway, so naturally, there aren't any gains when an X pipe is compared to an open header or short collector setup.
X pipe systems can be harder to route due to space requirements, and more than likely will add cost to your exhaust compared to straight or h-pipes.
In short, go with what you want...
.
Honestly none. But if you want to believe the scavenging theory when not all motors fire cylinders in the same order just be stupid like the rest. Who ever has one will never admit they waisted their money. I personally never saw a gain on anything but a ford which has a totally different firing order then Mopar or GM..
If you were buying one from me and were paying me to install it. There wouldn't be a better exhaust. And when its done you would spread the word that it is the best so not to look stupid. Then this would promote the sale of more X's to more ignorant buyers and I would make more money. I might even type up a dyno sheet for you to pass out.
Doesn't matter what the firing order is, unless you're firing two cylinders on the same bank one after another. And since no one does that, it doesn't matter.
The crossovers are far enough back in the system that it doesn't matter which header tube the exhaust pulse came from. Which, you could argue, means the scavenging theory is a bit of a stretch to begin with.
Regardless, the firing order of pretty much all the "V" engines I know fires a cylinder on the left bank followed by one on the right, or vice versa. Which means that adding a crossover will shorten the distance between pulses in the exhaust. I've seen a few car mag articles showing dyno changes with an X or H pipe vs no crossover. Most of them are pretty insignificant, usually just a few HP or couple of ft-lbs. Not anything you're going to feel on a butt dyno.
Most modern factory exhaust systems include some kind of crossover. If they did nothing at all, this would be a waste of money by the factory. Maybe its only a few cents per car, but more bends and more pipe equals more money. Since its not just one brand, and there are multiple performance cars out there that roll off the showroom floor with X pipes, I'm guessing there must be something to it. Even if its only because it sounds cool. Someone must think it helps to sell cars, otherwise you wouldn't see them in factory exhaust systems.
The crossovers are far enough back in the system that it doesn't matter which header tube the exhaust pulse came from. Which, you could argue, means the scavenging theory is a bit of a stretch to begin with.
Regardless, the firing order of pretty much all the "V" engines I know fires a cylinder on the left bank followed by one on the right, or vice versa. Which means that adding a crossover will shorten the distance between pulses in the exhaust. I've seen a few car mag articles showing dyno changes with an X or H pipe vs no crossover. Most of them are pretty insignificant, usually just a few HP or couple of ft-lbs. Not anything you're going to feel on a butt dyno.
Most modern factory exhaust systems include some kind of crossover. If they did nothing at all, this would be a waste of money by the factory. Maybe its only a few cents per car, but more bends and more pipe equals more money. Since its not just one brand, and there are multiple performance cars out there that roll off the showroom floor with X pipes, I'm guessing there must be something to it. Even if its only because it sounds cool. Someone must think it helps to sell cars, otherwise you wouldn't see them in factory exhaust systems.
Last time I checked my firing order It was 1, 8,4, 3, 6, 5,7, 2.. I believe all mopar and gm fire this way 8 and 4 on the right. 5 and 7 on the left. one after another. So now what? Does it matter now? You must have an X on your ride or are dreaming of getting one. X-pipes are a waist of money My car wouldn't pull past 7500 with an X. 9000 with and H and its right up against the rev. limiter It goes up so quick it sees 9300 on the recall with the rev set a 9000. X pipes are an intersection of exhaust interuption. Its a no brainer when two masses cross paths there is a conflict of flow. you idiots just keep believing what you want. I will never install an X on my Cars. Only on yours and as many as I can $$$$$$$$$
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
ops: :happy1:
txstang84
Well-Known Member
lou3500
Fla. Cuda Guy
I ain't no dyno guru and my stock 273 don't make any axle breaking horsepower, but my exhaust guy asked me if i wanted x pipe/h pipe and i said do i need it with the 2 1/4 exhaust and magnapacks he said no,i suppose for my application it don't matter, just my 2 cents.
lead69
hopeless car junkie
I guess for every guy it doesnt work for there are alot of "idiots" who see real,actual results at the track from them.I could waste my time listing the many "idiots" including myself but I see your mind is made up and your opinion is the only one that matters.
Jason65
65Dart
Just to bring me up to speed how many Mopar's are turning 9000 RPM, and through mufflers? Not into the race circuit but that sounds impressive.
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