Your opinions on what I should do engine wise..

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you know I sure am missing the California weather. Out here= Hot and humid as hell then 14 inches of rain in the last 2 days!

I hope it aint too bad. I might be in texas next summer doing basic training for the air guard, assuming I join. Well anyways guys ha ha, thanks again for all the help. And like I said, if you have a specific cam you would recommend me going with, shoot me a pm or post it here.

Also keep in mind, that I don't want to do any structural changes to the car (member, rear, etc)
 
You might want to find one of the 273 build threads like toolmanmike or Rob and pm them about stuff like the cams they used. there are some good solid builds on here that would more than fit the bill.

As far as Texas? Strap a block of ice on your *** cuz your gonna need it! LOL.
 
Well I'm used to temperature, I live in fresno, I'm used to working out in 112 degree weather. It's the humidity that worries me..
 
I suggest, start simple;
Dual exhaust off the stock mainifolds, I am using Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers,
and 2 1/4" pipes. {1 7/8" stock size the first foot or so,
then they are stepped up to the larger pipe size.

The local Midas did the work, i brought the mufflers with me.

For the money, this is the best thing to do,
a cam, 4bbl etc all needs good exhaust to work best.

Second add Electronic ignition, like the Jegs kit.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/40031/10002/-1?CT=999
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar+Performance/312/P3690426/10002/-1

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud8mci4rjFU"]YouTube - 1964 Valiant dual exhaust[/ame]
 
if you choose to keep the 273 the first thing you will need to address before cam, carb, intake, exaust, is having unleaded valve seats installed in the heads,
 
Gosh, you'll get as many different answers on this as you can imagine. ....and most of them are not wrong. However, consider the fact that you NOW have a running car. In "MY" opinion, it would be unwise to tear that apart in a quest for the 273 to make more power. Not that I'm knocking the 273. They are great engines. When 318s and 360s are so plentiful and cheap, that would be my choice. Since you're obviously not looking for a drag car, the 318 will fill the bill nicely. That way, you can still build the engine while continuing to use the car for transportation and make the swap when you get done. The 318s came in a 230 horse version from the factory, so even in stock trim, come close to your 250 horse goal. With a good matching camshaft and intake and a good set of headers, a 318 will probably be close to 300 HP. I would suggest the Edelbrock Performer intake and matching camshaft. The Edelbrock carburetors, while I hate them with every fiber of my being.....will be a nice addition at this power level and will be hard to beat. THAT is what "I" would do in your position. Since the car is not an original Commando car, it's value as a collector is not as great. Installing the 318 also saves the original engine so that you still have it in original condition if needed.
 
Thanks a lot guys I've gotten a ton of great feedback. Another question now about exhaust..

Say hypothetically I keep the 273 and do the carbs, intake, cam, etc (or even if I do a 318 and do similar upgrades) I assume I should definitely be upgrading the exhaust. So what I would imagine, would be to up headers, pipes, and muffler? Not sure what else I should do or if that's all? Also, what are the benefits of dual exhaust? Any disadvantages?
 
If you decide to upgrade to a 318 I have a 67 318 engine sitting in storage I would sell cheap. There is no disadvantage to a dual exhaust setup unless you put on a monster sized system. for your 273 2 1/2 inches is more then enough. Any bigger and you will have no back pressure in the system. If you go the dual exhaust route just make sure you have the room for it.
 
If you put a dual exhaust,small 4 barrel aluminum intake and a good ignition you will be very happy with your 273 and will have alot of money saved towards a bigger set-up.Don't worry about hedders right now a good dual set-up with your manifolds will be noticeable,try a few small things first,see what you like.
 
Based on my experience with a 66 and 65 cuda 273's, I would first say if motor is old so is everything else! If you want more HP you will be able easily to put a simple 318, it will run well and give enough power to drive or like one of mine go fast at track. I would first decide how much work I could do myself and what not to mess with w/o help.. You can easily get a decent 318 at junk yard or if money allows buy a crate motor w/ some warrenty.......I would take opportunity to rebuild tranny, for street just tune up and restore, if for faster talk to trans shop and tell them how fast you want to go and they can do what is appropriate, your 904 will do fine for mild HP (I had 318 w 350 hp 13.8 in 1/4 mile). Biggest issue is rear end for street keep it and be gentle you will have no problem. For going fast you will need a bigger rear, I went all out and had a 8.75 rear built for street strip 66..was custom built cost 3,000 but built for up to 500 hp. Going fast cost money for reliability and safety! Street cruising cost less but costs..need to think about better brakes for lots of driving, mine has front disc brakes, converted dual master cylinder (original is one cup style not safe then or now). I have also restored front end suspension all new, electronic ignition ect....Always costs money but still cheaper then 45k new car and much more fun , also way cooooooooooooleeeer!!!!!
 
Something to keep in mind - a problem I ran into with my car. I put a 318 with the late model 302 casting heads in my 66 dart. I originally planned on running the cast iron 273 exh manifolds. NO GO. The drivers side exh manifold had an interference problem with the cast in boss for the heads air injection ports. The down leg on the manifold casting hit the casting on the head and would NOT fit. I suppose I could have made a flat spacer to bring the manifold away from the head, but I said screw it and installed shorty headers instead.

Your alternate plan if you want to use cast iron would be to have the 273 heads, or other pre exh air injection heads rebuilt with hard exh seats in them. While doing that, install 1.88/1.60 valves - the old 273 heads were closed chamber as well - which is a good thing !
 
You can grind some on the boss and on the manifold to get the new head and manifold problem fixed. I did it on my 360 head and early manifold.
 
When I try to narrow it down to carburetors that would fit my engine, it only comes up with 2 barrels. But I could be doing it wrong.
You should invest in another car to get you to work, school, and part stores.
A small pickup would be best. They can carry anything.
This way when you start your upgrades you won't stress out when your upgrades don't work the first time and leave your only form of transportation out of service.
Leave the car alone and enjoy just driving it. Any closer and I would lend a hand with some of those upgrades.
 
The most noticeable increase would be a four barrel and electronic ignition. The only issue is finding an intake if its a 64-65. If 66 or newer a performer intake, Edelbrock 500, or 600 will work well and be large enough for a bigger engine later on, you will need to modify or find correct throttle linkage and kickdown, or get a lokar kickdown cable, and throttle set up, which works well.

A mild cam and lifters would also help, I'd recommend the small one Isky (E4 I think) offers since the 2 barrel 273 is low on compression and your engine should have a solid cam. And 2 1/8 dual exhaust is plenty for the 273 or 318. And stick with the manifolds, headers will make you broke for an early A. Don't worry about hardened seats, you won't need them.

Or just slip in a good running 318 with a four barrel and have more power and torque. I believe the torque converter register is a different size than the crankshaft on the older cars to the newer engines.

I have a 273 in a 65 Barracuda, 9 to 1 comp, pocket ported heads, commando intake, 600 carter, 2.5 inch single ex, manifolds, elec ignition, comp 270S solid cam. it runs good, has decent power and gets about 20mpg on the freeway. Its not a tire smoker unless you get that right rear going, then look out.
 
the only way you wont need hardened seats is if you have been running and will continue to use leaded gas which by the way has not been available for over 30 years at the pump
 
You should invest in another car to get you to work, school, and part stores.
A small pickup would be best. They can carry anything.
This way when you start your upgrades you won't stress out when your upgrades don't work the first time and leave your only form of transportation out of service.
Leave the car alone and enjoy just driving it. Any closer and I would lend a hand with some of those upgrades.

Yeah if I had the money I would. I'm a broke college student working 16 hours a week at $10/hr. These parts are gonna be bought on a part to part basis. I definitely can't afford another car ha ha. I have a lot of people to lend hands with the upgrades. Friends who have restored/rebuilt their own cars. Just wanted some opinion from the mopar experts on what to do. Without a doubt this car will get some kinds of upgrades done. It might not be anything crazy extensive, I mean really I'd probably be happy with just intake and carb, and exhaust. I was just trying to hear everyones opinions, and get a little education while I'm at it.
 
Also not sure what anyone means by hardened seats ha ha. Just saying.:read2:
 
Also not sure what anyone means by hardened seats ha ha. Just saying.:read2:

Hardened valve seats in the heads, refers to the exhaust valve seats,
being able to hold up longer with the modern unleaded gas.

When i built the 318 I put in my car, to replace the tired 273,
I went with more modern casting # 302 heads, these heads have the
small "Swirl Port" combustion chambers, and hard valve seats.

Good luck with your project, don't forget to change the oil and filter.
 
The hardened seats thing is not true. Not unless you intend on racing or towing some heavy loads very frequently. Everybody thinks hardened seats came about because of unleaded fuel. Hardened seats were introduced because the lead in gasoline was actually sticking to the exhaust seats and valves causing hot spots and burned valves and seats. As engines became leaner and leaner, the hard seats were necessary because the exhaust temperature was too high for regular seats to stand. In most high performance applications, the seats don't need top be hardened, because the engine runs pretty rich. Unless you're doing some racing or heavy towing where the exhaust temperatures will be too great, hardened seats are not necessary.
 
Would I ever get the 273 engine to a point where I need to worry about replacing the rear?

With a slush box, no problem. Mopar put Commando/904 combinations on the 7¼ diffy. The 4 speeds got 8.75s.

This might be a great learning opportunity. Pull a 318 out of a wrecking yard and rebuild to a 250 hp target. You could go at your own pace taking advantage of your local experts as you go. You would need to have an engine stand, all other specialty items can be rented. The only reason I don't recommend a 360 for this venture is that it is more likely to grenade your diff.
 
Since you are on the cheap and have a "65" 273? The intake attaching bolts should take a 1/2 inch wrench. The most bang for the buck is a Edelbrock 500 cfm carb on the street. Unfortunately you need a "64"-"65" 4 barrel intake. This is where I would start. Next have a second exhaust pipe for dual exhaust made/installed. A quick curve electronic ignition would be next. These would up your power and reliability and should keep or increase MPG. Swapping motors is not simple or cheap. A lot of things changed between 1965 and 1966. When you have more time and money, get that 318, 999 trans and 8 3/4 rear, go though them and drop them in when they are done and you don't need your Dart for a daily driver.
 
You asked for opinions so here's mine. All the carbs, dual exhausts, & manifolds in the world will not make a 273-2v base engine a fast car. Even if you were to luck upon a cheap running 360, then all the remainder of the drivetrain & brakes should be upgraded which is not cheap. Just enjoy the car as-is & don't worry about getting beat by Hondas. The old saying always holds true- Q: How fast you want to go? A: How much money you got?
 
The hardened seats thing is not true. Not unless you intend on racing or towing some heavy loads very frequently. Everybody thinks hardened seats came about because of unleaded fuel. Hardened seats were introduced because the lead in gasoline was actually sticking to the exhaust seats and valves causing hot spots and burned valves and seats. As engines became leaner and leaner, the hard seats were necessary because the exhaust temperature was too high for regular seats to stand. In most high performance applications, the seats don't need top be hardened, because the engine runs pretty rich. Unless you're doing some racing or heavy towing where the exhaust temperatures will be too great, hardened seats are not necessary.

WOW this is about as far from accurate information as I have ever read anywhere, why not just say the world is flat?

the lead in gasoline had two purposes, one was to help prevent detonation, which is why compression ratios went down with the introduction of unleaded fuel's, the other purpose for leaded gasoline was that the lead would leave a protective layer on the exhaust valve seat, with out it under load hot spots will cause tine "spot welds" resulting in pitting of the valve seat and loss of the ability to properly seal after about 25 thousand miles unless you use a lead substitute every time you fill up
 
Most advice is good, but seems far beyond Coryduran's experience or funds. I agree with the advice to enjoy the car as is, plus the currently good mileage.

Many start with advice to upgrade to a 360, then add a newer transmission (lever shift) for direct bolt-up and better torque converter choices, but you also need a bigger rear-end, so custom driveshaft. Of course add BBP wheels & brakes, plus shorten the axles and tub the rear. Quickly becomes a total rebuild of all the car's mechanical systems. The risk is biting off too much and another "project car" that sits for years unused.

To address his initial upgrade idea, a 4-barrel carb can give both better performance and better mileage. However, don't go too big (common mistake). For a 273, I suggest 450 cfm. Even smaller if you can find one (370 cfm), but those are rare and costly. The smallest primary bores you can find will give the best mileage, and vaccum secondaries help, especially for a lead-foot driver.

The toughest part is installing a 4 barrel intake manifold. There are 2 barrel to 4 barrel carb adapters, but probably not enough hood clearance, plus they restrict air flow. You can adapt a later 4 barrel aluminum intake to fit early small blocks by drilling and filing. He will also probably have to adjust or adapt the throttle and transmission linkages, perhaps using an aftermarket cable kit. He will find this initial step will take appreciable time and funds, but is do-able and should bring satisfaction.

My main advice is read a lot and visit ebay and craigslist regularly. I got a new 2-barrel for $25 and a nice 4 barrel for ~$50 by waiting. Don't jump into anything. Many take the easy "buy retail" route via Summit, Jegs, and Year-One, but soon have a $10K car in expenses, but usually not in value.

Re hardened valve seats and unleaded gas, I second caferacerx. I recall a Popular Science article in the late 1970's where they discussed exhaust valve wear with unleaded gas. The engine tests then predicted excessive wear after ~50K miles. The main problem I recall is that the valves would sink into the heads until the hydraulic lifters could no longer correct the gap and the valves wouldn't close fully. Lead oxide particles left a layer that cushioned the valve closings. However, I think StrokerScamp may be correct that the problem did not turn out to be as bad as predicted. Certainly any time you pull a head, have hardened exhaust seats installed, since it is amazingly cheap. You will also be better than Magnum engines which don't have separate seats but rather the metal was just locally induction hardened and tends to crack between the valves.
 
Boss man I wouldn't waste my time with the 273.... I went down the same road you're going and still was unhappy with the 273.

Drop in a running 360.... it has a longer stroke than the 273 or 318 among other things. You will notice a big difference just in that alone. Torque is what makes a car fun on the street. Good luck.
 
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