Z bar alignment

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Yote

Yote

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Took car out of shop today. Stepped on clutch, BANG and it went to floor and stayed. Retainer seems to have been forced off, dropping linkage off of z bar connection .Outer end of bar is too far forward. Looks like stud is canted toward front. Thinking of using a tapered shim on each side to bring it into line. Are there better suggestions from FABO members ??? Sorry about picture , difficult to get in there.
Yote
 
I don't think a shim is going to help you. There isn't ton of extra room in the Z bar assembly anyway, not enough to fit a substantial shim. If the ball stud is crooked then either the ball stud failed or the mount did. The ball stud just has a short threaded stud on it, there's no reason for it to be crooked unless something broke. The other possibility is that the end of the Z-bar split, which has also been known to happen.

Before you plan the repair you're going to have to pull the Z bar out and find out what's broken or damaged. Probably a good time to install new bushings too.
 
The plastic bushing halves on both ends are probably broken up. It will tilt like that if you don't have them installed or they are broken.
 
Bushings are new . Don't know about length, it came with car but seeing POs work nothing would surprise me. If you look at picture carefully, you can see the misalignment. Clutch rod has to be forced on to get retaining clip on.
Yote
 
That's what I'm talking about. If the ball stud reinforcement plate is crooked you'll have to fix it before you do anything. Shimming it won't likely work because that would mean the Z-bar will have to be shortened the thickness of the shim if it's anything significant. Is this an original 4 speed car or was it converted?

Is the clutch rod for an A body? They're different lengths for the other body styles. Could just be the wrong clutch rod. Heck it could be the wrong Z bar too, not even all the A-body Z bars are the same length, that changed with the bellhousing sizes.
 
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72bluNblu said:
That's what I'm talking about. If the ball stud reinforcement plate is crooked you'll have to fix it before you do anything. Shimming it won't likely work because that would mean the Z-bar will have to be shortened the thickness of the shim if it's anything significant. Is this an original 4 speed car or was it converted?

Is the clutch rod for an A body? They're different lengths for the other body styles. Could just be the wrong clutch rod. Heck it could be the wrong Z bar too, not even all the A-body Z bars are the same length, that changed with the bellhousing sizes.
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Original 4 speed , a body clutch rod , PO installed Lakewood bell housing . Can't say about z bar, it came with car .
Yote
 
The bellhousing may be causing you issues. What's between the ball stud and the inner fender? In your picture you can see the ball stud ends at the red arrow. The yellow arrow is pointing to some kind of spacer? Shouldn't be anything there, the ball stud should bolt straight to the inner fender. There are two different lengths of Z-bar for the small block bellhousings that I know about, one is an inch or so longer than the other. Could be the Z-bar isn't the right one for that lakewood bell and it was "adapted".

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Everybody is right but I'd like to add; Make sure your engine mounts are not broken,and that the tail of the tranny is where it's supposed to be.
I'd also like to add that;
The installed Zbar has to be parallel to an imaginary line drawn exactly at 90* to the vehicle centerline,from front to back. Any deviation more than maybe a couple of degrees and it will want to spit that special clip off. Now if you have a stout anti-rattle spring on there the linkage might stay together for a while, But it could pop off at the worst moment.
I have seen maybe three different inner ball-stud brackets, that move the inner pivot this way and that. But that matters not a bit if you have a Lakewood, cuz as far as I recall, it has just one integral mounting strap, for the stud.( I mightof seen one with 2 holes;not sure)
You may have to fabricate a new inner mount,or move the outer mount. If you move either one,you may have to re-engineer the levers as well.
Unless of course one of the mounts slipped or it spit out a bushing, or broke the ball off.
 
Good point, the entire driveline could have shifted if it broke an engine or transmission mount. Or both.
 
New motor and transmission mounts. Both arrows point at one piece ball stud. Will check further tomorrow.
Yote
 
Yote said:
New motor and transmission mounts. Both arrows point at one piece ball stud. Will check further tomorrow.
Yote
Click to expand...
If that's all one piece then it's not the right one. Should look like this...

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The more I look at that post#1, the more it looks to me like the sheet-metal just gave up and twisted; like alluded to in post #2. Having that spacer there allowed a lot of twisting torque to pass into the sheet metal. I think that whole side needs to be move out board. If that sucks the downrod to far over, then I'm guessing the Z-bar is too short. If it falls off the inboard stud.that would prove it.
But if moving it outboard centers the downrod, the inboard stud can be moved out with washers. That end has a much stronger anchor.
If nothing else fix the sheet metal and weld on a large plate to spread the load.
Check your clutch departure, you may have the wrong ratio bar and the clutch-fingers were pushed too far transferring a lot of pressure back into that anchor.If you have a diaphragm clutch, you need to remove the assist spring off the pedal assy.
 
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Dogone it AJ, now your talking above my head. I have no idea what clutch departure or a diaphragm clutch is, and I am probably too dense to fully understand it if it were explained to me. Will be back to shop today , work on it, possibly post more pics, and get back to you. Why can't some of you guys who really know their stuff live just down my street ?
Yote
 
Listen, you're smart enough to ask questions when you have trouble, and that's how most of us learned what we know. You might be just a little further down on the learning curve. All it takes is time. My time is running out, so I'm glad to pass on what I know. We'll do our best to get you through this.
As to clutch departure, we can't check it until this Z-bar issue is resolved.
As to clutch type, we can get into that later.
 
I'm surprised this has not been mentioned yet. Is the inside of the z-bar worn out. Even with new bushings, the bar will slip off the ball studs if the tube is worn on the inside. When you take the z-bar off, just look at the ball studs and see if they are pointing straight. Then inspect the inside of the z-bar because any wear will cause a problem. Call Brewers performance and explain your situation. I'm sure they can help.
 
I'm going through a similar issue. My A body was converted from an auto to a 4 speed. They simply drilled a hole for the frame ballstud and predictably, the sheetmetal is deforming. I just received a FB676 FRAME BALLSTUD BRACKET 1967-76 A-BODY from Brewers. All I have to do now is get it welded on and hopefully my issues will be resolved.
 
Here's what I do. With the bellcrank and body side ball stud out you might try taking a length of 1/2" threaded rod and a couple nuts to figure the alignment. From the body, shoot for straight across to the bell housing stud in any view. You can also do it from the bell side as well provided the engine /trans assembly is where you want it. That should get you in the realm for a new body side stud plate. I tend to keep my bellcrank slightly higher on the body side allowing for a little roll.

As said previous plate departure comes later.


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More pics. Z bar is 7" long and does not appear to be worn on the inside. AJ , don't rush your time. You are a valuable asset to all those on FABO and from what I've seen to a lot more.
Yote
 
The first pic in post #22
seems to show the plate pulled away from the apron and a crack in the sheet metal. That plate should have been welded on.
I would remove it, and inspect the apron. Make repairs as necessary. If the car was changed to be a manual, you will have to verify that they put the anchor hole in the right spot. This has already been mentioned,and ways to do it, as well.You may have to move the hole. Then when you get that engineered, you can weld the plate back on where it belongs. Don't go crazy on the welding;three or four generous tacks should do it.You cannot depend on the ball-stud/nut torque to keep it in place.The plate has to to be well anchored to good metal, on the apron,especially in the for/aft direction.
Then you can shift the Z-bar transversely, to center the down rod. And finally shim the ball-studs to put them in the right place. That procedure is tricky,cuz the plastic bushings are designed to anchor the Z-bar in place, with a metal-wire clip. At least one end has to be anchored. The other end on mine had a little roll pin which also indexed into the bushing groove.
So that will keep you busy for a few hours.

BTW; nice camera work.We are all here to help.Each of us seems to have a particular skill, and many are overlapping.I'm still a newbe here. Now sit down and press the thank button 348 times to bring my total back to pre-NewSite numbers.lol;And while you're there press Daves too, on account of his excellent drawings.
 
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Is my 7" z bar the correct one ?? OR how do I tell ? Is inner side of z bar supposed to be over or at least nearer to the shoulder of the inner ball ? What would the length of the other z bar be re: post 11. Weld broke toward front of outer ball bracket, but still attached. Have it clamped tight and a bolt tight through hole . Ready to weld .
Yote
 
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The side with the wire clip locates the outboard side. The inner can fall wherever so long as the bushings are in the tube a ways.
As the engine torques over under every shift, the inner ball will tend to come out of the tube. I think my bar had a roll-pin in there to limit the inwards travel during mock-up. The clutch-pedal down rod should be well centered in the firewall opening, or the bellows-seal will not last long. Shim the apron side to get that right. Then shim the bell side to put the ball where it needs to be.
After that you may have to move the flat lever to get the link-rod to the clutch fork to line up, and not hit the headers or something else in there. It's pretty tight in there.
I believe the 7" is correct.
 
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