Z bar bracket question

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toolmanmike

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I am having clutch adjustment issues since my rebuild. I can't get freeplay in the pedal without running the throwout bearing on the pressure plate fingers constantly. I replaced the clutch when I rebuilt my engine but nothing else has changed. I did have a question about the z bar pivot ball and bracket that bolts to the bellhousing. Does the slotted bolt hole go up or down. I think I installed mine up and the z-bar doesn't set straight. If I turn it around I hope it realigns the linkage and I get some adjustment back. Your suggestions? Mike
This photo is just an example, mine looks different but does have the slot. My bracket doesn't have the extra bushing tab and the pivot ball is more in the center between the bolt holes.
 

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I am a little confused about what you are trying to say. Free play in the pedal indicates that the throwout bearing is not contacting the fingers on pressure plate. I think what you are trying to say is you can't adjust the linkage to get any free play.

The bracket on the bell housing only goes on one way. The picture you posted is how it bolts to the bell housing. If you had the slot up the ball stud would be pointing towards the bell housing, pretty obvious that won't work. Or it would flipped over so the ball stud is behind the mounting bolts. From you tape measure in the picture it would be out of position by 4", that wouldn't work either and would be quite obvious.

If your z-bar is not sitting level and square to the centerline of the engine you could have the wrong bracket. There are three different brackets for small block a-body applications; 64-66, 68-71 and 72 up. If you look at this link from the Brewers web site you can see what they look like http://www.brewersperformance.com/products.asp?id=109.

When I swapped in the v8 into my car I wound up with a 68-71 bracket but had a 72+ bell housing and the z-bar sat at an angle up from the frame to the engine with the engine end of the z-bar about an inch further back than the frame end. It worked and could be adjusted but would bind up occasionally under hard acceleration. Got the right bracket and all was well.

Another thing to look at is the actual throwout bearing correct. Compare the new one to your old one the distance from the bearing surface that contacts the fingers to the surface the fork presses against should be the same. The actual bearing is pressed onto the cast piece the fork clips on and this could have been machined in correctly or not assembled correctly.

If you get the z-bar position sorted out, the bearing is correct and you still can't adjust to get any free play then the new pressure plate may not have been set up correctly. I am assuming you have a stock type three finger Long style pressure plate. The position of the fingers can be adjusted by the large nuts on the pressure plate that are in line with the fingers. Adjust the clutch as best you can and have some one hold the pedal on the floor. The gap between the disk and the flywheel should be approx 0.050" if it is significantly bigger that would be an indication the fingers are too high and you need to adjust those nuts to lower them. This should give some more room to adjust the throwout bearing.

Good Luck!
 
Hahaha thats my picture:) but thats all right. Whats that bushing for on that tab? Also I think theres a picture of how it mounts on a bell housing in the thread you got that from.
 
I am a little confused about what you are trying to say. Free play in the pedal indicates that the throwout bearing is not contacting the fingers on pressure plate. I think what you are trying to say is you can't adjust the linkage to get any free play.

Dave, I said the wrong thing. I have too much free play. If I adjust it so there is a slight gap between the throw-out bearing and the pressure plate fingers, the clutch pedal releases within an inch of the floor. If I adjust it so there is an inch or two freeplay at the top of the pedal, the throw-out bearing rides on the pressure plate fingers.

The bracket on the bell housing only goes on one way.

The bracket can go two ways, slot up or slot down. I know it can't be reversed so that the ball is towards the bellhousing. LOL

The picture you posted
The picture is from 67valiant100's post. It is not what my pivot and bracket looks like, just an example.

is how it bolts to the bell housing. If you had the slot up the ball stud would be pointing towards the bell housing, pretty obvious that won't work. Or it would flipped over so the ball stud is behind the mounting bolts. From you tape measure in the picture it would be out of position by 4", that wouldn't work either and would be quite obvious.
Ya, I know. It can go one of two ways though.

If your z-bar is not sitting level and square to the centerline of the engine you could have the wrong bracket.
The bracket is the stock one and worked perfectly with the old clutch. I will turn the bracket upside down and see if it helps. I questioned myself when I put it back together as to which way it went.


There are three different brackets for small block a-body applications; 64-66, 68-71 and 72 up. If you look at this link from the Brewers web site you can see what they look like http://www.brewersperformance.com/products.asp?id=109.

When I swapped in the v8 into my car I wound up with a 68-71 bracket but had a 72+ bell housing and the z-bar sat at an angle up from the frame to the engine with the engine end of the z-bar about an inch further back than the frame end. It worked and could be adjusted but would bind up occasionally under hard acceleration. Got the right bracket and all was well.

Another thing to look at is the actual throwout bearing correct. Compare the new one to your old one the distance from the bearing surface that contacts the fingers to the surface the fork presses against should be the same. The actual bearing is pressed onto the cast piece the fork clips on and this could have been machined in correctly or not assembled correctly.
That is a possibility. The clutch kit I got was supposed to be for my application but that clutch never came on a 66 Dart. It is probably for a truck or Taxi. (10" clutch that fits on a 9 1/2" flywheel.) My application may take a different length throwout bearing.



If you get the z-bar position sorted out, the bearing is correct and you still can't adjust to get any free play then the new pressure plate may not have been set up correctly. I am assuming you have a stock type three finger Long style pressure plate. The position of the fingers can be adjusted by the large nuts on the pressure plate that are in line with the fingers. Adjust the clutch as best you can and have some one hold the pedal on the floor. The gap between the disk and the flywheel should be approx 0.050" if it is significantly bigger that would be an indication the fingers are too high and you need to adjust those nuts to lower them. This should give some more room to adjust the throwout bearing.

Good Luck!
In conclusion, I changed the clutch and throwout bearing but nothing else has changed. Either the pivot bracket is installed wrong, the pressure plate fingers are a different measurement from the flywheel surface, or the throwout bearing is a different length. I will try the bracket first.
Thanks Dave Mike
 
Wow, hard to believe no-one has changed a clutch without problems.
I'll be the first. lol I had a guy today say I should hack up my linkage for "more throw" (he used to do it on stock cars.) Sorry,no. I would rather correct the cause of the problem. Mike
 
I just checked on Brewers website and they only list 1 throw-out bearing for all non HEMI mopars. (18 or 23 spline only) Here's a shot of the z bar pivot and bracket. I aparently need to change my glasses. Looks like the z bar should be a mile off if I installed the bracket upside down. If I do it could make a difference.
LOL
 

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Well, the pivot bracket is installed correctly and the z bar is straight. I have a question though. The fork seems loose on the pivot but it seems to be attached. Wait a minute, it may not be clipped in all the way. If I push it iit opens up the gap between the bearing and the fingers. Let me see what's going on there. I'll be back.
 
All seems well there as long as the fork "clips" onto the square hole in the pivot.
It's like the fingers stick out too far. I am thinking that I should just go to the ol' Napa store and order a clutch. This one has been a pain.
 
the way I understand you have proble having

the slack between the throwout bearing and
the fingers of the pressure plate if thats correct
and every thing is in there correct place z barre
is straight and all parts are install correctly

the probleme is from the pressure plate
what kind of pressure are you using
borg and beck?
doog nash?

or if you prefer 3 fingers or diaphramg
http://www.ramclutches.com/Products/car builder.htm

if its the 3 fingers style you can adjust them to have
more clearance betwwen the fingers and the bearing
but will change a little a on the pressur you will get
 
Borg and Beck style. I put in a similar clutch as what was in before just a bit bigger. If the new one is set up different I can't correct the problem with adjustment.
 
I just got off the phone with Wayne @ Brewers Performance. Nice guy and very helpful. He suggested tightening up my clutch fork spring by grinding off the rivets and straightening out the spring to give it more tension then bolting the spring back on. Apparently if the fork is loose all sorts of crazy adjustment problems can happen. I'll try that when I get a chance. I also ordered a new clutch pedal stop and a pedal to torque shaft rod. Mine is pretty sloppy. What a pain this clutch problem has been. If this all doesn't fix it I will probably have to put a stock clutch back in. Mike
 
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