Z-Bar to frame issue

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gtgto

gtgto

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Finally got my car running good. Went to take it for a long ride today and got maybe 1/2 mile away from my house and when I pushed the clutch down it went to the floor. I was able to limp the car home in 2nd gear. Got home and jacked the car up and put jacks stands under it. What I found was the plate that is connected to the frame rail on the drivers side that the Z Bar connects to is pulling away from the frame. I didn't take anything else apart. I put a clamp on it to hold it in place and was able to pull the car back in the garage. What is the right way to fix this? I have a bad feeling that whatever is behind that plate is not going to be good. I'm no welder so I will have to bring the car to someone on a flatbed again......I'm thinking this car hates to be driven or it just hates me.
 
When this happened on one of my other cars, I replaced it with a 1/4" plate larger than the original plate and welded it to the frame rail.
 
Brad4406 said:
When this happened on one of my other cars, I replaced it with a 1/4" plate larger than the original plate and welded it to the frame rail.
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yup, that happened to me, too. I reinforced the inner fender and frame. then the z-bar arm peeled off of the zbar tube. reinforced that, and so on, and so on.
This happened almost 50 years ago. If I were doing it now, I'd think about a multi disk clutch, so you'd have less pedal pressure, and less load on the stock linkage.
If you don't want to make that leap, it might help to optimize all the geometry on your linkage, to make sure there are no extraneous side loads, slop in the bushings, joints, excessive wear, etc. not only in the zbar area, but in the throw out arm and even pedal assembly.
 
The factory plates are only held on by a couple of spot welds in some cases, some were welded on a lot better than others. I would pull the plate off, check for rust, and then clean it up and weld it back on. If there isn't any significant rust back there anyway.
 
chryslerfat said:
Do you have a clear pic to post?
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Well there you go! You can see the tiny little spot welds from the factory. Doesn't look like a lot of rust either, so that's good. There's a crack at the inner fender sheet metal there, so probably what happened is the upper weld didn't penetrate all the way through to the frame rail so the upper part of the plate was only attached to the inner fender sheet metal. The inner fender flexed until it cracked, and now the upper part is loose.

You should be able to just clean that up with a wire wheel, then add some welds to re-attach/reinforce the plate. It won't take much, you could either put some welds on the outside lip of the plate (super easy), or if you wanted it to look more original you could drill a couple holes through the plate to the frame and plug weld it back to the frame. In either case, it's not a repair that should take a lot of time. Or skill either, you just need someone with a welder and a minimum level of competency using it.
 
72bluNblu said:
Well there you go! You can see the tiny little spot welds from the factory. Doesn't look like a lot of rust either, so that's good. There's a crack at the inner fender sheet metal there, so probably what happened is the upper weld didn't penetrate all the way through to the frame rail so the upper part of the plate was only attached to the inner fender sheet metal. The inner fender flexed until it cracked, and now the upper part is loose.

You should be able to just clean that up with a wire wheel, then add some welds to re-attach/reinforce the plate. It won't take much, you could either put some welds on the outside lip of the plate (super easy), or if you wanted it to look more original you could drill a couple holes through the plate to the frame and plug weld it back to the frame. In either case, it's not a repair that should take a lot of time. Or skill either, you just need someone with a welder and a minimum level of competency using it.
Click to expand...
I agree thanks for the pic and get it welded now. You should have many more years of shifting.
 
72bluNblu said:
Well there you go! You can see the tiny little spot welds from the factory. Doesn't look like a lot of rust either, so that's good. There's a crack at the inner fender sheet metal there, so probably what happened is the upper weld didn't penetrate all the way through to the frame rail so the upper part of the plate was only attached to the inner fender sheet metal. The inner fender flexed until it cracked, and now the upper part is loose.

You should be able to just clean that up with a wire wheel, then add some welds to re-attach/reinforce the plate. It won't take much, you could either put some welds on the outside lip of the plate (super easy), or if you wanted it to look more original you could drill a couple holes through the plate to the frame and plug weld it back to the frame. In either case, it's not a repair that should take a lot of time. Or skill either, you just need someone with a welder and a minimum level of competency using it.

Yeah the area doesn't look to bad at all. I cleaned it up and clamped it down. Now I either need to find a friend with a welder or pick one up for myself. If I were to try it myself can you recommend a beginner type welder for small jobs? Not looking to spend a shitload of money on one.
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rustycowll69 said:
yup, that happened to me, too. I reinforced the inner fender and frame. then the z-bar arm peeled off of the zbar tube. reinforced that, and so on, and so on.
This happened almost 50 years ago. If I were doing it now, I'd think about a multi disk clutch, so you'd have less pedal pressure, and less load on the stock linkage.
If you don't want to make that leap, it might help to optimize all the geometry on your linkage, to make sure there are no extraneous side loads, slop in the bushings, joints, excessive wear, etc. not only in the zbar area, but in the throw out arm and even pedal assembly.
Click to expand...
Good point. I think I was running a 3500 lb pressure plate at the time. I'll be making the same modification to the Barracuda when I install the same clutch on it.
 
72bluNblu said:
Well there you go! You can see the tiny little spot welds from the factory. Doesn't look like a lot of rust either, so that's good. There's a crack at the inner fender sheet metal there, so probably what happened is the upper weld didn't penetrate all the way through to the frame rail so the upper part of the plate was only attached to the inner fender sheet metal. The inner fender flexed until it cracked, and now the upper part is loose.

You should be able to just clean that up with a wire wheel, then add some welds to re-attach/reinforce the plate. It won't take much, you could either put some welds on the outside lip of the plate (super easy), or if you wanted it to look more original you could drill a couple holes through the plate to the frame and plug weld it back to the frame. In either case, it's not a repair that should take a lot of time. Or skill either, you just need someone with a welder and a minimum level of competency using it.
Click to expand...
I only see 2 spot welds at the bottom part of the bracket. The inner fender has a nice tear in it just above the top of the bracket. I cleaned up a lot of the surrounding area tonight. Waiting on a friend to come y with his welder. I'm thinking he should fill the spot weld that is no longer doing its job(left hand hole. Also I'm going to have him weld the left hand edge and the bottom to the frame. The upper part is iffy with the inner fender issue. I might drill a couple of holes, one on each side as high up as I can go with frame behind it and put a couple of plug welds in them. Will that do the job?
IMG_3761[1].JPG
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IMG_3763[1].JPG
 
gtgto said:
I only see 2 spot welds at the bottom part of the bracket. The inner fender has a nice tear in it just above the top of the bracket. I cleaned up a lot of the surrounding area tonight. Waiting on a friend to come y with his welder. I'm thinking he should fill the spot weld that is no longer doing its job(left hand hole. Also I'm going to have him weld the left hand edge and the bottom to the frame. The upper part is iffy with the inner fender issue. I might drill a couple of holes, one on each side as high up as I can go with frame behind it and put a couple of plug welds in them. Will that do the job? View attachment 1715091074 View attachment 1715091075 View attachment 1715091077
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Sounds like a plan!
 
Finally got someone to come by the house today and take care of the welding of the z bar bracket to the frame....He is no pro and probably used way to much material but the finished product seems to have done the trick. Clutch pedal movement seems to be nice and crisp. Can't wait to take her out for a joy ride.
 
gtgto said:
Finally got someone to come by the house today and take care of the welding of the z bar bracket to the frame....He is no pro and probably used way to much material but the finished product seems to have done the trick. Clutch pedal movement seems to be nice and crisp. Can't wait to take her out for a joy ride.
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I hope you're right. Sometimes, strengthening one part, just moves the failure point somewhere else down the line, especially with heavier spring pressures . So, you might want to monitor it closely, for awhile.
I ran a brace from my firewall to the left fender attachment, because my firewall was flexing, but I think that was because I went overboard on PP clamping pressure (I listened to bad advice, LOL)
 
Don't feel bad. Mine broke on the plate that pushed the rod to the shift fork. I ripped my tranny out, was in a hurry and got lazy, and tried to be a man and lift it out by myself. Broke my finger when it slammed down on the ground on it. Needless to say clutch was mint. Tore out the zbar to find it broken. Mine doesn't have that plate that yalls has. Mine has three bolts through the inner fender. Just make a new plate bigger than that and weld her up.

IMG_1076.JPG
 
Deemo said:
Don't feel bad. Mine broke on the plate that pushed the rod to the shift fork. I ripped my tranny out, was in a hurry and got lazy, and tried to be a man and lift it out by myself. Broke my finger when it slammed down on the ground on it. Needless to say clutch was mint. Tore out the zbar to find it broken. Mine doesn't have that plate that yalls has. Mine has three bolts through the inner fender. Just make a new plate bigger than that and weld her up.

View attachment 1715093275
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that looks exactly like my zbar. It just peeled off of the tube like that. hahaha
 
rustycowll69 said:
that looks exactly like my zbar. It just peeled off of the tube like that. hahaha
Click to expand...

What makes it worse is my broken finger. No lift here and it's my right ring finger. Snapped it perfectly. Now I know to check that bar. I remember it quite a lot. Especially shifting from first to second and my finger hits the dash >.<. L
 
Deemo said:
Don't feel bad. Mine broke on the plate that pushed the rod to the shift fork. I ripped my tranny out, was in a hurry and got lazy, and tried to be a man and lift it out by myself. Broke my finger when it slammed down on the ground on it. Needless to say clutch was mint. Tore out the zbar to find it broken. Mine doesn't have that plate that yalls has. Mine has three bolts through the inner fender. Just make a new plate bigger than that and weld her up.

View attachment 1715093275
Click to expand...
Deemo,
Ironic, that same exact thing is what I am going through! I thought the pressure plate was bad, and replaced the clutch which of course was fine. Only to find out later my z bar looked EXACTLY like your broken one. Tough lesson.
Now I ordered a 64-66 small block A body one z bar from Classic Industries. Eyeballed it and it looked right. Went to put it in this morning...Nope. The new one is 7.5" and mine is 7". It is the original out of a '65 Dart GT 273/4spd (I have a '66).
Back to shopping around to try to find a new one that is the right length. Where did you get yours?

My setup does not have that plate either - only three bolts through the fender that screw into the bracket that rests (not welded) on the inner fender.
 
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